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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greatest Need
    Posted: Mar 02 2011 at 1:23am
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 1:42pm

Gentlemen


There is something terribly wrong when we need to take funds from the poor to fill the coffers of city hall. I believe we may be on the very edge of a discrimination suite.

Therefore last Monday I requested a full and detailed accounting of all CDBG Funds from January 1, 2004December 31, 2010 however I have not received the records yet. Mr. Wooten stated it would take from 7 to 10 days for him to comply with my formal request. 

After these records are fully reviewed I will request a meeting with the City to give them the
opportunity to answer any and all questionable uses for funding of projects under the HUD rules and regulations.

It is time for the City to answer these difficult questions and concerns of the citizens.
We need hard facts and truthful answers. 
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 12:13pm
The city may have an attorney running HUD and they will need him. This blatant and allegedly fraudulent manipulation and movement of intended Revitalization funds to Highland and the most prominent areas in Middletown is unacceptable, and frankly, fraudulent and a misuse of the guideline associated with it. The efforts and funding was in large part, to focus upon prevention of foreclosure and stabilization. Instead, city officials have used the capital to buy housing stock at low prices, run residents out, and pay back the close fans of city hall, through the quid pro quo network.

The last straw for me was reading about the city's generous offer to buy paving equipment for residents who want to pay lump sum to have streets repaired or have the expense spread through taxation over time. This maneuver is muck akin to the unconstitutional violation of the Commerce Cause associated with Obama care. It is not constitutional because 60% may want to pay for asphalt as the city does not. Then we add in the discrimination policy. What makes Highland, Thorn Hill, northern Curryer a more deserving target than DaVinci, or any number of cul de sacs which also have nice homes? Mr. Adkins, this will not fly, be warned.

This blatant misuse and turning the pineapple cake "upside down" as sj calls it, is an antithesis of the intent of the Recovery Act. It is severe malfeasance which has the markings of fraud and misappropriation. There are reporting mechanisms and specific guidelines associated with the Recovery Act, just as there are guidelines for reporting federal violations of Medicare and Medicaid, and waste through qui tam. 

Apparently it is asking any council member to reset the ordinance where funds were once dedicated to streets and infrastructures, in contrast to the now wonderful gift the city provides, through petitioning the fellow resident to have your street paved. This is the most of the fundamental of city responsibilities, with public safety, which the city is not performing. Putting this in perspective, this is almost six elections or greater, of council members who have made no attempt, to reset the clock and make funds dedicated to streets and repairs of infrastructure.

Housing stock is a mess in Middletown. Who do you think benefits from the re-allocation of funds from what the Recovery Act was intended, to specifically targeted neighborhoods? Highlands, other wealthy areas, while other wealthy areas, and poor, have cracked streets, craters, and now white asphalt.

Mike Presta and Vet stated "how can we follow the track of money misappropriated from the levy passed to 1.75%? That's an easy one. Pull up the city documents, calculate the annual amount te city received, and how much is applied annually to salaries of fire and police. The levy was written to solely support police/ fire wages. If it was diverted, it is a crime. Hamilton could not take a % of the MetroPark funding passes by the county, and use it for other purposes.

What is the motivation behind Cincinnati State---is it truly saving The Manchester legacy, or about jobs? Same with PAC---is it about saving downtown, or is it about enhancing the value of the Highland Park area around Main? You know the answer.

As Artlover states, "you have not only art, but blatant misappropriation of Recovery Act funds. Anyone tired of being told actions are "game-changer" when they border on malfeasance?                   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 10:25am
Sorry to return, however I have thoughts on this very important topic and direction, especially when companioned with the street paving thread.
 
For starters, I hope that everyone has read or will reference an editorial authored by the very knowledgeable Robert Reich from yesterday's MJ print edition. Not only does it capture the national dilemma, but also mirrors the local situation, paryicularly our Council's/Admin's approach of slanting govt. funding away from the areas of greatest need to the more affluent "historic" neighborhoods. In essence, the "haves" continue to get more at the expense of the "have nots". I really don't see this as following the true intent of federal funding.
 
To pave McGee, the Highlands area and El Dorado before attempting to shift partial re=surfacing costs to local desiring neighborhoods is very disconcerting logic and blatant malfesance of duty. If streets will mainly be re-done in the future after 60% neighborhood agreement, only the upper-class neiborhoods will see improvements. The lower income areas simply can't approve these projects simply because they won't be able to pay the assessments. The direction of our Admin has turned the federal intent upside down, along with using an abnormally high % of funding for Admin salaries in order to protect those in the golden bunker.
 
I also see this as a future trend, accelerated by the misguided and under-handed legislation eliminating the ward system. Decisions are now being made to shamelessly benefit the wealthy but over-emphasized historic, former downtown and now uppewr-class east end areas. I saw this coming, as I have witnessed the long-term dismantling of our "neighborhoods" to focus only on specialized pockets inhabited by the most influential residents. We used to have neighborhood schools, diners, grocery markets, diners and retail pockets coveniently catering to each area. This brought familiarity and inclusiveness for everyone, meshing together with adjacent sectors to form a well-served and balanced local community. As we choose our next Council at-large, it will be hard to effectively respresent the entire community, particularly those who need assistance the most. Face it--our east end "politicians" seldom go west of Breiel, dren't aware and often don't care about the most troubled neighborhoods. I know this--because I often talk with them. They honestly don't know what it is like to spend the majority of their time in these challenged areas. Crime--poverty--unemployment--poor conditions.
Do you REALLY think that an important east end roadway would have suffered through the long delay and 5-month re-surfacing project that many of us endured with the bumbled Supthin Street project?
 
Well--look what we have now.
 
The former downtown area honestly doesn't exist, and hasn't for decades. Actually it looks worse now than at anytime prior, after tens of millions of expenditures. The Towne MKall area has deteriorated and the east end area beyond I-75 has not grown nearly as promised and anticipated. Retail and dining options locally are few and far between, with empty commercial properties dominating the landscape. Our schools are now large modern and centralized, yet our academic results still languish at the bottom of the area ratings.
 
While constantly claiming to be out of the real estate business, local govt. continues to buy empty properties with no real purpose or long range effective usage plans. The "to be torn down" list is growing longer, and you could honestly level evey building in the former S Main business district without anyone missing anything. The Sorg Opera House has been allowed to become a disgrace, as has the Sorg Mansion. The list of bad real estate in that area is far too long to list.
 
I agree with the majority of Mr.Adkin's intent, however there are serious flaws in the areas mentioned above. As a community, we cannot allow some of these concepts to move forward. Ms.Moon and Mr.Presta have raised very serious topics that need to be forcefully and honestly addressed.
 
jmo
 
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 6:46am
The photos provide good ammunition to support the complaints Vivian, if ya know what I mean. Sure beats Leslie's pathetic explanations on why the city can't take care of the cemetery properly. Even the "Landen spin machine" can't compete with actual pictures. Wonder what Landen would say if that last picture was a member of his family and the headstone was in the direct path of the tire tracks??? There's some callous people down at city hall, aren't there?

Vet
You can't believe the horror stories that I and my cuzzie Mitch heard while working at the cemetery over the years. If a family member came in with a complaint we tried to solve it ASAP
Family members have been crying and complaining for years and years, and nothing was done.

One day I was working at the cemetery and I was hot and tied and smelled like a goat when a car pulled up and a little 90 year old lady climber out of the back seat of the car, got her walker and came over to talk with me. She told me how beautiful the cemetery looked and how happy it had made her as she drove throught the gates and saw all the flowers I had planted blooming all over the cemetery. Said I was the answer to her prayers because she had worried for years about who would take care of her bothers, mother and  grandmothers graves. On that she placed a ten dollar bill in my hand and gave me a hug and said that was all she could afford because she had been ill. She wanted me to use the money to buy pretty flowes for the cemetery because her mother just loved to smell and look at pretty flowers...well needless to say on that I went into complete tears and she gave me another hug and I cried even harder and this time we cried together. I never forgot the little lady and I never complained about working in the cemetery again. I had received payment in full that day.
Gee I'm crying again just telling you the story. 

And that vindictive bunch at City Hall stole her flowers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 5:47am

 IF it is true that 50% of the fed money never leaves the city building as Vivian states, where is it going and if not going for the intended purpose, can it be reported to the feds and will they respond? This is what we were talking about the other day......CS&H auditing the city's financial situation. This information from Vivian, IF accurate, is a perfect example and reason for the city to be investigated and if need be, prosecuted for misappropriation of funds. Is there no way to inquire to the feds about having someone follow the money trail?....Vet

Vet
  Let me try to make my point in a better more accurate way.
  If I had a Magic Wand and could remove all HUD funding and Section 8 from the City of Middletown at 8 am this morning you would be shocked at the number of employees that would suddenly disappear from City Hall. I believe it is HUD funding that is now keeping City Hall alive. But what will happen when these funds are no longer available or program funding is reduced?
  These HUD programs have a very complicate formula on the ways and amounts the City can use for administering the programs. I was only involved in the construction, design and inspection of large HUD projects. But I believe the City is now using 50% maybe a little more depending on the program. I do not know nor can I prove any misappropriation of funds however I will say that I do not believe the City is using these funds in the wisest way to solve the problems that plague our City. I also believe the City needs to more frugal in the use of these HUD funds. We need to get more bang for the buck. 
   I’m sure Nelson Self can give us the answers on all these formulas, percentages and rules etc.
   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 4:14am
Support
Here is the link from Aug 19, 2010 where we had the full discussion of the new 5 Year Plan that M.r Adkins spoke of Tuesday night
http://middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3223&KW=HUD
As you will notice it just doesn't match the facts given earlier by Mr. Adkins about high crime and proverty areas.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 4:05am

Vivian, you suggested above that NSP and CDBG funds are being used in the Highlands.

Support
 I’m sorry I did not mean to confuse all these issues so I’ll try this again….


HUD has given the City the tools, such as CDBG & NSP, to help solve the problems of revitalization, high crime and high poverty in the 1st & 2nd Wards
Until last year when Mr. Adkins declared the 54% Rule all CDBG funds could ONLY be used in the 1st & 2nd Wards. Ya see many of these programs came about in the late 1960’s as part of Pres Johnson’s WAR ON POVERTY.   

CDBG funding was never intended to be used in an area such as the Highlands Historic District.
Under the rules you would not qualify for these funds because of your income.


I think you confused things, the paragraph you posted is about Certificed Local Government (CLG) funds, which don't come from HUD. CLG is a historic preservation designation through the Ohio Historic Preservation Office that opens up grant opportunities for Middletown. Oxford, for example, is a CLG and thus eligible for these grants.
I’m not confused on the facts at all and I have no problem with the City filing for CLG funds.
However the City stated that the
Middletown Cemetery would not qualify for these funds and I don’t believe that to be an accurate statement.

The report only mentions HUD because the grant-funded efforts would be in accordance with the city's 5 year consolidated plan.
CDBG funds will be used to repair the streets in the Highland District as per Mr. Adkins.
Under the rules this area should not receive any CDBG funds.
(This new plan has NOT been approved by HUD)
 

I feel like you make many assumptions without giving City Hall any benefit of the doubt.
Well I’m really sorry that I have given you that impression.
I have given the City 7 years of benefits and at this moment I have a lot of doubt and concern about the way the City is spending tax payer dollars.

I do NOT agree with CDBG funding being removed from the 1st & 2nd Wards when their need is so great. The City made this mess and these funds should be used to solve the problems.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 3:15am
From the HUD Annual Action Plan (see either of the January Council meeting workbooks):
3. Describe actions that will take place during the next year to address obstacles to meeting underserved needs.

4. Identify the federal, state and local resources to be made available to address the needs identified in the plan. Federal resources should include Section 8 funds made available to the jurisdiction, Low-Income Housing Tax Credits, and competitive McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act funds expected to be available to address priority needs and specific objectives identified in the strategic plan.

Program Year 2 Action Plan General Questions response:

As noted in the Strategic Plan, based on the latest U.S. Census data and Comprehensive Housing

Affordability Strategy (CHAS) information, the City of Middletown qualifies as a low- to moderateincome

area on a citywide basis. The areas of racial concentration are primarily on the west side of

town. The areas that the program will focus assistance on this year are broken down into 38

individual neighborhoods (see attached map). These are the City’s target areas. Each year of this 5

year consolidated plan will focus the majority of all activities to 1 to 2 of the neighborhoods in the

most need of revitalization. The selection is based on the data listed in the neighborhood strategy

section of the consolidated plan and with consultation of the Consolidated Planning Committee.

Work will continue in these target neighborhood(s) until all available efforts have been depleted or

until statistics show the area has become self-sustaining. For the FY 2011 action plan, the City will

continue to focus on the Douglass and Harlan Park neighborhoods. It is our intention to start focus

on the Highlands and El Dorado neighborhoods as well.

NOTE: I believe that "El Dorado neighborhood" as defined in this document, includes streets such as Rosedale Road, Thorn Hill Lane, The extreme northern portion of Curryer Road, etc.  Arguably, these streets comprise one of the nicest and wealthiest areas of Middletown!!!  I believe that everyone is familiar with the "Highlands neighborhood".
NOTE 2: Emphasis (red) added by this poster!!! 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 30 2011 at 12:13am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

HUD has given the City the tools, such as CDBG & NSP, to help solve the problems of revitalization, high crime and high poverty areas of this community.
HUD funding was never intended to be used in this manner.
 
Vivian, you suggested above that NSP and CDBG funds are being used in the Highlands. I think you confused things, the paragraph you posted is about Certificed Local Government (CLG) funds, which don't come from HUD. CLG is a historic preservation designation through the Ohio Historic Preservation Office that opens up grant opportunities for Middletown. Oxford, for example, is a CLG and thus eligible for these grants. The report only mentions HUD because the grant-funded efforts would be in accordance with the city's 5 year consolidated plan.
 
I feel like you make many assumptions without giving City Hall any benefit of the doubt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 9:45pm
IF it is true that 50% of the fed money never leaves the city building as Vivian states, where is it going and if not going for the intended purpose, can it be reported to the feds and will they respond? This is what we were talking about the other day......CS&H auditing the city's financial situation. This information from Vivian, IF accurate, is a perfect example and reason for the city to be investigated and if need be, prosecuted for misappropriation of funds. Is there no way to inquire to the feds about having someone follow the money trail?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 9:26pm
Please remember that more than 50% of this HUD money never leaves the doors of City Hall…and then the poor folks get the left overs.

I hate to admit it but it has been shocking to me also.
But I will tell you that over the last seven years they have broken every agreement they have made with me.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 4:43pm
Shocking stuff to say the least.Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 3:10pm
HUD has given the City the tools, such as CDBG & NSP, to help solve the problems of revitalization, high crime and high poverty areas of this community.
HUD funding was never intended to be used in this manner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 3:01pm
The old "bait and switch". Declare > than 50% of Middletown poverty, fine as many people as you can, then divert funds that are to be used to mitigate foreclosure and help poor neighborhoods, to areas which have bankers, doctors, and friends and partners with city leadership? Well, Thornhill, DaVinci, and Curryer, among other streets where residents live with comparable incomes but horrific streets, aren't going to stand for this shell game.  Nice they are taking care of McGee from what I recall, sure Dr, Ionna and others are thankful for the "white gove" treatment with federal funds to "stabilize these dire neighborhoods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 2:23pm
Acclaro
Last February Mr. Adkins promised $100,000 of CDBG funds for the improvement of Lafayette Avenue east of the Community Center. However at the last City Council Meeting he noted that these funds were not spent and would now be used for the improvements within the South Main Street Historic District instead.

Neither last year nor this year will barely any HUD funds be spent in the Amanda area where it is well known that this area desperately needs infrastructure and rehab assistance.

In the HUD Five Year Plan presented before City Council last year Mr Adkins indicated that neighborhoods such as Church, Sherman, and Oakland areas are “to far gone” to merit HUD funding.

Instead the upper middle-income Highland Historic District will be the target area for CDBG and NSP funding.
Yep that 54% Rule is reeeally working well for all them poor folks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 1:24pm
I find it nunconscionable the city manager has the audicity after two decadesof the city taking monies from the street and infrastructure funds, which have not been dedicated since 1986-1987, to state if residents in certain streets want the city to resurface the street, they will, either by paying lump funds, or amortizing the expsense through proiperty tax.
 
How many residents is that going to bring in the Middletown and new businesses? You have the nuxury of having the city resurface your street if you pay for it in lump sum, or include it in your taxes? Now Highland Historic area getting the Ritz treatment. The city will be challenged on this act assuredly.
 
Isn't it a basic duty for the city to maintain streets and infrastructure, provide public safety, and that's really the core focus isn't it? My gosh, the city mainatins the golf cart route at Weatherwax better than the streets, and now the city manager thinks the city is offering a great deal for residents to PAY for streets they live on, for maintenance. How on earth does anyone believe this benefits Middletown, provokes others to move in?
 
Get ready for a challenge to the allocation of funds for "selective" streets around Highland where Kohler, Mulligan, others live, and the detriment of those having to PAY for streets to be paved or sealed? No way.
 
According to Ordinance 2910. it is not an option for maintenance NOT to be performed, regardless of prioritization. Would a resident have a higher priority to have a broken auto fixed, and not paint a house based upon Doug Adkins 'crack-down"? I think not.
 
This is why the city is failing in everu conceiveable manner. What is it that city hall, city coucnil, and the gang of 200 who run the city, don't get? The danageis done, but the taking away of the leaf service, the unwillingness to repair roads, the rasing of water bills, and now the city offering to resurface streets at a price to be paid is too much. They tax for the maintenance of Weatherwax, including the golf cart path, and expect residents to pay if they want their street paved? Ain't going to happen.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 12:23pm

When I take you to court you can see everything in my briefcase

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 11:48am
Originally posted by SupportMiddletown SupportMiddletown wrote:

Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

   

    In 2006 Mr. Kohler promised CDBG fund to the Middletown Cemetery, these are the same funds that were being used to restore the South Main Street Historic District where Mr. Kohler resides.  

 
 
 
Do you have any actual proof of this?


what he said
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SupportMiddletown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 11:12am
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

   

    In 2006 Mr. Kohler promised CDBG fund to the Middletown Cemetery, these are the same funds that were being used to restore the South Main Street Historic District where Mr. Kohler resides.  

 
 
 
Do you have any actual proof of this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 9:16am
Vivian- wonder how fast funding would be provided if the property the cemetery occupies were owned by a person in the Highlands or S.Main St. areas? How can private home owners receive fed taxpayer money to fix up their private residences? If they bought the fikkin' house, and it needed to be repaired, let them use their own money. Fixing up their privately owned house, using taxpayer money to do it, benefits the taxpayer how?????? The city leaders must help their buddies. It's a cozy relationship with a lot of back-slapping and whispering, with the occasional laughter as they discuss how they are shafting the general public who are not worthy of membership, with all the rights and privileges, into their "exclusive" club. I say the citizens need to revolt and "off with their heads"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 8:58am
Well Vet
The City has assured me numerous times that they don’t have any funds for the cemetery.
However since I started working on the cemetery seven years ago, CDBG Historic Preservation Grant funds have been given to properties owner in the Main Street Historic District. Downtown Funds have been given to business owners in the downtown area to restore and improve the front facades and loans and grants have been given for the restoration of the buildings in the area. Downtown Funds have also been used for the numerous meetings and studies of the Main Street Program and then last year more funds were used for the City of Middletown to become a member of Heritage, Ohio, so tax credits and grants could be made available for historic preservation and revitalization. Last year they established the Highland Historic District so those properties owners could get tax credits and use of CDBG funding. However with all the above historic funding the City of
Middletown just can’t seem to find any funding for the restoration of vault at the Middletown Cemetery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 8:27am
The photos provide good ammunition to support the complaints Vivian, if ya know what I mean. Sure beats Leslie's pathetic explanations on why the city can't take care of the cemetery properly. Even the "Landen spin machine" can't compete with actual pictures. Wonder what Landen would say if that last picture was a member of his family and the headstone was in the direct path of the tire tracks??? There's some callous people down at city hall, aren't there?
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council


Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
Status: Offline
Points: 4187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 7:38am

 Middletown Cemetery 8-02-2010

Please City Council tell me again about "Greatest Need"






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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council


Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
Status: Offline
Points: 4187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 29 2011 at 7:04am
Old South Park 8-02-2010






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