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Saturday, May 18, 2024 |
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Firefighter Proposal |
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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Posted: Jun 12 2012 at 1:17pm |
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I worked with Springfield Fire for a year or so and this is an apple to organge comparison. Springfield is fully staffed and has 2 fire stations with double companies. I like the idea but you can't compare the two.
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Stanky
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 04 2011 Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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Today's Journal:
MIDDLETOWN — The city’s fire administration may look about 50 miles north to determine if a significant amount of taxpayer dollars can be saved. Fire Chief Steve Botts is interested in exploring Springfield’s fire department model, but he said he wants to wait on direction from city council or the city manager. City Manager Judy Gilleland is out of the office, but it appears a majority of council wouldn’t object to at least exploring the option. “What works for one city doesn’t always work for another, but we should be open to exploring the best possible alternatives while trying to continue the best possible service for a community,” said Councilwoman Anita Scott Jones. Councilman Joe Mulligan would like another work session to discuss the topic before he would say if Botts should proceed in an in-depth comparison. “It’s just so early in the process; I don’t want to say it’s good or bad. I just don’t know yet,” he said. When comparing Middletown to similar fire district around the region — specifically looking at Hamilton, Springfield, Mansfield, Newark and Fairborn — Botts said the research brought the Springfield model to his attention. “It’s something I would like to take a little bit more time to look at,” he told council last week. The fire division’s budget — along with the police division’s — relies in large part on the city’s public safety levy, a 0.25 percent income tax which expires this year. It is on the August ballot. On the line is nearly $3 million that supplements the combined $21 million budgets. The fire division’s budget is around $9 million. “Everyone has to ready themselves for the possibility that it could be turned down,” Botts said. Botts, according to his research, said it costs Middletown $924 per call in 2011, and with a reduced 2012 budget of about 9.5 percent, it’s projected that cost will drop about $88 per call this year. The Springfield model will provide “significant” savings, Botts said, though exactly how much is not yet certain. He said his research indicates Springfield’s model is “best in class” when it comes to cost per call spending. Springfield’s cost per call in 2011 was $784, Botts said. Springfield completed in 2007 a long-term evaluation of its fire service, said Fire Chief Nick Heimlich. “We essentially had divided services,” he said. The fire department and the labor union worked on the changes, and Heimlich said the switch “has worked for us from the outset.” Nine Springfield fire companies are staffed with a minimum of three firefighters, as opposed to two, and CREWS TAKE THE MOST APPROPRIATE VEHICLE TO A CALL AS OPPOSED TO BOTH AN AMUBULANCE AND A FIRE ENGINE.... ------------ Gee, where have we heard of this great idea before? And why is Botts only now realizing there are better ways of running a department? |
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chu082011
Outsider Joined: Jan 16 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Dear friends
Thanks for sharing. I like Firefighter Proposal very much.
Very useful for me.
If you have some time, pls visit my
blog at: Firefigter interview questions Rgs |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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TonyB/ All.... Perhaps a call to the Cincy/Dayton TV stations and sending researched info. from these pages to the AG (or whoever is responsible for the enforcement of CIC's/NFP's) in Columbus? |
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Pacman,
Could not agree with you more!!! They'll be no change in Middletown so long as the current council is dominated by the MMF crowd. They have their idea of what they want to do and they have the votes to continue doing it. Of course, once the current disaster over the CIC is brought to light (if it ever will be), perhaps the citizens of Middletown will wake up and see how little regard for the law our current council has. Since the local newspaper is intent on the policy of "good news only", it's going to take an outside media story to get any coverage of the mess that's been made. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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LMAO,
What give you the impression that Mr. Laubaugh can effect change when most of the time he is on his own at Council or at the best has only one other council person voting along with him.
If you are going to effect change in council you need to stop voting in the Pickard, Mulligans, and the Morts. Nothing will change as long as council has this make up. Mr Laubaugh has been one of the most vocal people of council speaking in favor of the citizens. Current council mainly deals with the poverty stricken of Middletown or the upper end crown such as Main St. They have no time for the middle class citizen in Middletown. Pacman |
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Wots
MUSA Resident Joined: Mar 18 2009 Status: Offline Points: 94 |
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Wots
Liberalism: Moochers Electing Looters to Steal from Producers. |
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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I never realized that you could vote AGAINST someone!!! I always thought when candidates were involved, you voted FOR someone. I guess the Board of Elections forgot to put "NONE OF THE ABOVE" on the ballots!!! That would truly be a "radical" idea!!!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Gee…I’m not surprised that you “voted against” me. You’re usually wrong. I did notice, however, that I got a lot more votes than
YOU!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Ignore the message....Geeeez. Who TOLD you that where the revenue came from had an impact on the market value of labor or anything else? Did you here that on FOX News? Duh....the only bearing , in reality, is how the Administrators deal with the revenue if and when a decline in recipients comes. It has NOTHING to do with the value of anything.Duh! Do you thing that the City calls the Salt suppliers and say "We gotta pay less for Salt since we depend on the Tax payer for revenue and that revenue is down"?
Hey Mike....Run for Office again so i can vote against you again. Chill, a lot of this is just making a little fun out of a laughable SNAFU. I grew up thinking Community Leaders were smart people. I now find most of them to be out right corrupt or at least stupid. It is a sad commentary about the average American today. |
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LMAO
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 28 2009 Location: Middletucky Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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MR. LAUBACH you have lost alot of backers.All I got to say about that.(Forrest gumps favorite saying)
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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I doubt it!!! I'd bet that all of Irisner's ties were made by non-union employees at garment-worker sweatshops in Malaysia or Latin America!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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And you need to show some civility in the discussion, bud. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Irisner quote....
"Oh, there has been a lot of "too much", "wha, I don't make that much", "Wha, Bens.....". Now of those comments have meaning, they are whining. If you want to post regional pay and Middletown's pay (total compensation) for the employees covered by this thread, then we might actually be able to have a real discussion about this. Rarely on this forum are there rational discussions. This is the "Whining" Forum in my opinion". Irisner.....this sparring back and forth was never about comparing regional pay and Middletown's pay for public unions. Never in the equation. This debate, for me, is about the comparison between what the union folks have made and are making for similarly skilled work, compared to non-union workers, the percentage they are paying out of their paychecks, compared to what non-union/private sector workers pay out of their paychecks for bennies and the fact that the union people can "bargain" for their wages, using a contract, that gets them raises many years out, BEFORE the work is done and without a merit system defining accomplishments and contributions to the organization. (City residents in the case of city employees). IE- are we using taxpayer money to pay people who work for us that are totally useless or do they contribute? I JUST WANT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, THAT'S ALL. What the hell is the incentive to do a decent job if the public sector people are never rated by some kind of merit system, and they know they are going to get raises in years to come, regardless of the job they do? The current evaluation system has the potential of shafting the taxpaying citizens of this community. I don't give a dam about the comparison between Midd. public union workers and those in other areas. I give a dam about how they use my tax money and whether they give it to people who will work at the public union position level and not the half-steppers who drive around all day in a frikkin' pick-up truck with the little yellow bubble-gum light on top. That's as plain as I can make it Irisner. It's up to you whether you want to turn it around and distort it, OR, just plain ignore the message as you have done so far. Irisner further posts..... "Oh, yea. I am a Supervisor for a NON-Union company. Known to be firm, but very fair in dealing with People" Then if you are a supervisor for a non-union company, I'm sure you have been in a position where there has been talk from the "worker" crowd from time to time, about inviting a union in, right? And when that happens, the management of the company, who are very happy WITHOUT a union, gather you supervisors and above together to tell you what to say if you are approached by union talk, right? Been there....done that....Crane Plastics-Columbus- 1972- 1979 and Neaton Auto- Eaton- 1994 to 1998. Non-union...talk of getting a union by the floor folks. Gathered the supervisors and up together to stop the union talk. With your stanch defense of unions and their "rights", I'm surprised you work for a non-union shop. I had you pegged for some union rep out at AK, or some city employee with union ties. |
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Irisner,
I read and comprehend just fine. Money is money. Pay for services rendered. Not a difficult concept . Got it before you brought it up. Money does change the market only when someone is offering to do the same thing for less. Basic economics. Learned it in school (Middletown Public School System, btw). I don't want anything!!! The point I've tried to make twice which you still haven't gotten (or at least acknowledged), is that the public sector worker DOES NOT GENERATE THE REVENUE FROM WHICH THEY RECEIVE COMPENSATION!!! I'm not asking anyone to work for less; the point is that with public service there is a finite amount from which to pay for all services. In the private sector, the more productive the employee, the more revenue the company makes (profit) and can pay the employee more. Public service employees are paid with tax dollars that can only increase through more tax revenues being generated. That only happens in two instances; a booming economy or higher tax rates. That's why it's different. Do you really not see that or has your "radical" mindset precluded the possibility that there is more than one perspective to this argument? I was at the downtown rally against SB5; were you? As for the argument about Middletown police and fire being among the highest compensated in the area, the facts are pretty clear. Personally, I don't have any problem with that. I also don't see how you can say to a public employee who has been offered these contracts by the city administration that they should suddenly give it back. The whining about how it's unfair is bulls*** in my opinion. Tell me your going to give me more money and I'm going to say "Thank you very much" and move on; not " are you sure this is fair?" If we had a more farsighted city council, perhaps they would not have offered so much or been such pushovers at the negotiating table. I don't think that there is any argument that the infrastructure in this city is in terrible shape and it started when the infrastructure fund was shifted into general revenues to pay salaries and benefits for all city workers, union and non-union. It is up to council to fix this problem, not shift it to the backs of police and firefighters. I believe on that we agree. |
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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logical "notion"? You and Vet need to get a room. |
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ground swat
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 31 2011 Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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I love this town!
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bumper
MUSA Citizen Joined: Feb 01 2010 Location: over here Status: Offline Points: 307 |
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(40-50 gallons per lane-mile
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bumper
MUSA Citizen Joined: Feb 01 2010 Location: over here Status: Offline Points: 307 |
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bumper
MUSA Citizen Joined: Feb 01 2010 Location: over here Status: Offline Points: 307 |
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Salt BrineWHAT IS SALT BRINE?
THE BETTER ALTERNATIVE – GEOMELT BLENDS®
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Why debate an issue which was defeated. SR5 was premised upon the logical notion cities needed the toolkit and flexibility afforded to negotiate contracts which were fair and protected its taxpaying constituents. Many argued it was over-reaching, and it failed. The outcome was the exact principles in existing negotiation remain intact, yet cities have the flexibility to reduce staff. hence, it would appear the union took a bite out of its nose to spite its face. Of course, the alternative is to pass higher tax levies, which will fail.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Tony,
Either I am TERRIBLE at explaining things or you just don't listen. Does the market rate for a 'Employee Skill Level 1" change because of WHO pays for that Employee? No, it does not. You, and others think public money changes the Market, but only because you WANT it to, not because it does. As to the compensation package depriving Tax payers of other services, there you go again, whining wanting someone else to work for less just so YOU can get more. That is the whole point of this discussion. I say pay what is normal,on a Regional basis,for the Skill level of the Employee. Your mindset on this issue is what SB 5 is all about. Take away the Bargaining Rights of the Public employees so that we can beat them over the head until they submit and work for what will allow us to have the services we want. We only employ the number of people we can afford. IMO, that number is a lot less that we currently have. You said "When the compensation package is the highest in the area". OK, I have ask several times for my opponents to make rational arguments and leave the whining out of the discussion. That comment would have fit my request. Why do you only make it now? You could or could not be right. I have heard no one say that till now. Oh, there has been a lot of "too much", "wha, I don't make that much", "Wha, Bens.....". Now of those comments have meaning, they are whining. If you want to post regional pay and Middletown's pay (total compensation) for the employees covered by this thread, then we might actually be able to have a real discussion about this. Rarely on this forum are there rational discussions. This is the "Whining" Forum in my opinion. Oh, yea. I am a Supervisor for a NON-Union company. Known to be firm, but very fair in dealing with People. |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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At the temperatures below 25 degrees, the effect of putting salt on the street is non existent, it doesn't melt the ice. The roads still have enormous coatings of ice. That's why cincinnati put it down when the temperatures were above 32 degrees. The transition between the sudden conversion of cold water to ice was within a short period of time. I wonder who had the policy which was best....brine before the temp dropped and meling it had no effect, or putting it down when it could be melted. No matter, today it hits 40 degrees---problem resolved.
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jag123
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 143 |
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I saw an interview last night on News 5 with the Cincinnati street boss. He said that they had to do the pre-treatment twice. The rain washed away the first one. I bet that was expensive.
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ground swat
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 31 2011 Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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Ranting is towards the post of how wrong I am towards public unions comp. Know not a expert at thermal dynamics just at not wasting clients money. Quite frankly don't waste money on side streets learn how to drive slowly and safely. Cincy a different animal when dealing with ice as was stated, hilly. Volume of traffic is key to get most out of your salt.
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