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New School Facilities Proposal

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Marcia Andrew View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 10:26am
The School Board did not just now come up with the idea of building a new high school, and no one has even mentioned putting a bond levy on the ballot before our turn for the state matching funds comes up, which is unlikely to be before 2015, and likely later than that.
 
The idea of building a new high school was part of the original master plan, which was developed with a lot of community input, and the basis for the bond levy that was approved by the voters in 2003. The voters approved a bond levy to build 6 new elementaries and renovate 2 elementaries, for a total of 8 buildings to replace the existing 10 elementaries.  Phase 2 of the master plan was also described at that time, which called for building a new high school at a new location, and renovating the existing high school to accomodate one combined middle school to replace the 2 existing middle schools.
 
The process that the board has started now, through the facilities committee, is to re-evaluate that master plan from 2003, in light of many changes in the past 9 years, not the least of which has been the economy, to gain feedback from the community as to whether we should proceed with the 2003 plan whenever the state funding comes through, or we should modify the plan in whole or in part.  As adamantly as some of you feel that we should not build or renovate either for the middle school or the high school, there are at least as many people who feel very strongly that they were promised these new buildings eventually.  We are conducting all these public meetings to inform the community and get their feedback. If you choose not to go, that is your choice, but it is hardly fair to complain in advance that you won't go because "they" won't listen to you anyway.
 
So, as said, the master plan does not call for tearing down the 40 year old high school, but for renovating it. Renovation is much more intense than "remodeling," and if done it has to comply with standards set by the Ohio School Facilities Funding Commission, such that the cost is often almost as much as tearing down and starting new. At 40 years old the high school is, I think, still structurally sound (give or take a new roof or similar repairs). That doesn't mean that it is adequate to prepare kids to compete in a global economy. Just as one example, it was built before personal computers were in use. I get no smart phone reception inside the building.
 
The 2003 plan called for renovating the high school to become a middle school, but it is probably too big for that if we keep the 6th grade separate at Highview. These are all considerations to be sorted out.
 
Some of the comments on this thread suggest some misperceptions about the current use of the buildings.  The high school is fully used. There are no empty classrooms.  The Manchester building is fully used as well for high school classes and sports training facilities. There are no empty classrooms. We eliminated one elementary school this year, so we are down to 7 elementary buildings that are pretty full (although there is variation depending on the building. Miller Ridge and Central Academy are bursting at the seams). Verity is not currently being used for classes. All 6th graders are at Highview. All 7th and 8th graders are at Middletown Middle (formerly known as Vail) which is pretty close to full, too.
 
Marcia Andrew
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 10:56am
I can only fathom disappoint in not building new school(s) and renovating the current high school would be:

1) The school board
2) Faculty and staff within the system

How many students leave MCSD that cost $1.6 Mm through the migration are accounted for, in open enrollment loss?

A bad time now, and 3-5 years from now, to put money into Phase 2.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcia Andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 1:35pm
Acclaro, I re-read my post and honestly do not know how I could say this more clearly. As I said, we are considering "whether to modify the plan in whole or in part." All options are on the table. The consensus at the end of this process could be to not build or renovate anything, and to deal with what we have. I have purposely refrained from stating my own preference on the various options, or detailing my "compelling reasons," for whatever my preference may be, to avoid the public feeling like a decision has already been made (beyond the decisions that were, in fact, made in 2003). I always try not to make a decision as a board member without first gathering and considering all of the pertintent facts. In this case, one of those factors is what the community wants and what it is willing to support financially. Despite your supreme confidence that you know what the community wants and what it is willing to support financially, I have found in my time serving on the school board that it is seldom that clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 3:08pm
Perhaps some will see the economic value in voting yes on Phase 2 while others will conclude "no" is appropriate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 3:13pm
Acclaro, VietVet: again, the biggest concern is MMS/Vail. What is your suggestion for that facility? Please be specific. In a few years it will be 100 years old. Do we totally renovate, build somewhere else, or ignore it?  The heating plant is aged. There is no way to modify the system to take advantage of newer technology, such as duty cycling for enery efficiency. It does no good to replace the boilers, since the piping is buried in  the walls, floors, ceilings.  The plumbing system is the same: pipes are buried.  I have been told that MMS is responsible for 25% of the district's energy costs, and it isn't even air conditioned.  If we had no committee to rethink the options, you would complain that the board is doing things behind the voters' backs.  The district needs to review its options to make intelligent decisions. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 3:21pm
Acclaro: I just read your last post. Unfortunately, I can't make much sense of it.  All of the projected costs have been out there for several years.  I'm sure that they will be reviewed during this study period.  The figures were generated by competent architectural and engineering firms, based on state specifications.  What is it that you don't understand?  That renovation costs for MMS will be extremely high---close to, or above, new construction costs?  Please give us your wishes for MMS....renovate, build, ignore?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 3:28pm
chmoore1: I have no data, and have heard one argument: there is $40 Mm to be gotten from the state. Where is the data, is it on a website you can post? No data, no ability to conclude. You apparently have access to information I do not have, nor others. Please make it available. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rshaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 4:19pm
Acclaro: I found some information on the MCSD web site. Click on "Board Docs" (right hand side of page). Scroll down to June 20, 2011 board meeting (left hand side). Scroll down to "Facilities Update" by Steed Hammond Paul. Gives square footage of buildings, cost per sq. ft. to maintain, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 4:34pm
Not persuasive (to me anyway.)

Consider:  No mention at all in 2011 is made about boiler expense, etc chmoore1 in Vail.

The ratio of maintenance for the brand new schools and a few others was 71% of the cost for long-term maintenance of Vail, Verity, and MHS. That's a justification for building a new school building?

For others, here it is:

http://www.boarddocs.com/oh/mdcsd/Board.nsf/vpublic?open

Thanks Rick for pointing to the PPT presentation..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 14 2012 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by chmoore1 chmoore1 wrote:



Acclaro, VietVet: again, the biggest concern is MMS/Vail. What is your suggestion for that facility? Please be specific. In a few years it will be 100 years old. Do we totally renovate, build somewhere else, or ignore it?  The heating plant is aged. There is no way to modify the system to take advantage of newer technology, such as duty cycling for enery efficiency. It does no good to replace the boilers, since the piping is buried in  the walls, floors, ceilings.  The plumbing system is the same: pipes are buried.  I have been told that MMS is responsible for 25% of the district's energy costs, and it isn't even air conditioned.  If we had no committee to rethink the options, you would complain that the board is doing things behind the voters' backs.  The district needs to review its options to make intelligent decisions. 


Ok, Vail is 100 years old. Needs new boilers, buried pipes, in complete disrepair in some minds. Takes a fortune to operate, etc, etc. Needs to be closed down/ torn down. It is an energy inefficient money drain. Like Roosevelt's updated windows (which went to the scrap yard, didn't they along with the taxpayer money that bought them), Vail has the same, newer windows, doesn't it? Is the roof ok, or does it constantly leak? Last time I was in Vail (more than a decade ago), it looked about the same as it looked when I went to high school there in the 60's. Didn't look torn up inside to me.

If age and condition are the issues, why has a newer school (Verity) been closed, and Vail been allowed to remain operational if it is such an economic drain? Why has Vail, the largest drain in the schools system, according to your information, been allowed to remain open? What is the capacity of Verity? How many kids attend Vail? Are they close in student numbers or does Vail have many more? Would they fit in Verity with some overflow in another newer school recently built? How about Highview or Wildwood? They seem to be quite large for elementaries. Would they have room for some overflow. Is it possible to consolidate the kids at Vail, develop a staff and teach at another, newer school? Don't know. Just throwing out any and all ideas here.

I just have a feeling here, that no matter what the people want, no matter what suggestions are made with regard to keeping the current schools and not build, the decision has already been made to upgrade to a new high school either out by Miller Ridge or down by Lefferson Park......regardless of Ms. Andrew's re-assuring "no decision has been made" posturing on this. They just have to have Phase 2 implemented or else. Sorry, I have seen the same scenario before from the schools in past years. Pretend to offer public participation to appease the community and to say "we gave you an opportunity to speak", but in reality, the decision lies with the inner circle of educators, working with the school board to make the real decisions. City council does this too.You'll have to pardon me for my skepticism.I just don't trust those in decision-making capacities in this town. Past history says not to. They only listen to those close to them......AND, who will agree with them. No dissenters. JMO

Look, just admit it folks. YOU ALL JUST WANT NEWER, FANCY, SCHOOLS WITH THE LATEST BELLS AND WHISTLES TO IMPRESS .......WHO? No one busting the doors down in the new elementaries to attend, right? They haven't improved the poor reputation earned by Middletown schools in the last 30 years. No eye-opening academic proficiency improvements from these newer schools after, what, more than 5 years? Where is the ROI on these new schools? You all want them to keep up with all the surrounding communities. Problem is, most of them seem to be producing in their fancy new schools. Middletown has yet to show much. No performance- no reward from the taxpayers. Show us something as a result of Phase I and Phase 2 may be more appealing. Until then......not too much to get excited about, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 10 2012 at 9:05pm
From the MJ:

Middletown schools trim building options to three

Feedback indicates the middle school is a high priority for community.

By John Bombatch, Staff Writer 8:38 PM Tuesday, April 10, 2012

MIDDLETOWN — After several meetings, two community forums and an online survey, the Middletown City Schools list of Master Plan building and renovating options is now down to three.

With Tuesday’s start of the second wave of community meetings, Milt Thompson, the Middletown school district business manager, revealed the three building options that have been deemed most favorable at this point by both the current Middletown High School students and the community.

Joseph DeLuca, a client liaison of the Fanning Howey architectural firm said projected costs would range from $53.9 million to $79.1 million. Option C is the most expensive at $79.1 million and involves building a new high school while remodeling the current Middletown High School into a middle school. Option A would have the district construct a new high school and new middle school and cost an estimated $64.5 million. The least expensive proposal is option B would cost an estimated $53.9 and would build a new middle school for seventh and eighth grade and include renovations to the current high school.

Thompson said the surveys and feedback thus far have indicated several factors to consider in the building plan.

They include:

• Addressing the middle school is a high priority, and that new building should not be on the same site as the high school.

• The Verity site is a viable site for a new middle school.

• Keep the high school at its present location.

• Wade E. Miller gym will be demolished.

• Keep Barnitz Stadium.

Ten master plans were considered.

Thompson said the committee narrowed those options down to five.

“While the group did not meet the criteria of reducing the choices down to three, the facilities committee worked with the Fanning Howey architects — by committee, by consensus — to narrow it down to three options,” Thompson said.

The cost of renovating Miller gym were too expensive. In order for the gym to meet 21st century building codes, the need for handicap additions, an elevator, HVAC system, electrical systems and plumbing — including the need for more restrooms — and the installation of new bleachers would be required.

Two more community forums are scheduled for today. The first will be at noon at the Community Center, 800 Lafayette Ave. The second will be at 6:30 p.m. at Middletown Middle School, 1415 Girard Ave., in Middletown.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2012 at 6:38am
This just keeps getting more frustrating to me as it progresses......

• "Addressing the middle school is a high priority, and that new building should not be on the same site as the high school"

Why not the same site? Reasoning?

"The Verity site is a viable site for a new middle school"

What is wrong with Verity Middle School? Reasons for building a new middle school on the site of a current middle school is .......are??? Does it make sense at all to build a new middle school when there is one sitting there empty?

"Keep the high school at its present location"

Well, they got one right so far.

"Wade E. Miller gym will be demolished"

OH, HELL NO!!!!

"Keep Barnitz Stadium"

Wow, they got another one right! Good batting average considering the source.

"The cost of renovating Miller gym were too expensive.(as opposed to the cost of rehabbing new elementary schools after just being built of course) In order for the gym to meet 21st century building codes, the need for handicap additions, an elevator (for what?), HVAC system, electrical systems and plumbing — including the need for more restrooms — and the installation of new bleachers would be required."

Bogus reasons IMO. Game nights at the Wade E. Miller seem to function ok, by the looks of things. People don't seem to be in much distress while attending a game. The bleachers seem to be doing their job holding people without collapsing. Viable reason for new ones proposed? Does the gym seem abnormally cold when used? Probably on the warm side as gyms go, right? Why the new HVAC proposal? Are there people waiting in abnormally long lines to use the restrooms? Still using the school restrooms I assume. If the restrooms are enough to accomodate a daily number of several hundred students, why would it be different in accomodating the ones attending a B-Ball game two nights a week? Where are you going to play a basketball game that will accomodate the crowds seen the last few years? Gonna build a new gym I suppose. Where and at what cost? 21st century building codes? Is the facility still functional? Does it still do the job with each event? Anyone think these reasons are lame and have no substance? This building appears to be in reasonably good shape given it's age. It is an institution and reeks of tradition. These people would tear down the White House to build new. What is it with "new" when old and sturdy sometimes works just fine.....especially if old and sturdy comes with a dose of tradition and the thought of removing more history from this town? Do the "johnny come lately" city leaders want to destroy all of what the native Middletownians have built to date? Better yet, why are we letting them do it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote retired co Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2012 at 8:01am

Are the MCSD board members the same as the clowns running this town . How do we finance all these schools they want to build with no one wanting to live in Middletown? Look how many empty houses and vacant businesses are in the corporation. Look at all the streets wth patched tempoary fixes.You can't tell me that its cheaper to build a new school than too update Verity and the high school which isn't that old . I f I need to update my 60 year old home I have it done and stay there .Just because its not new don't mean I need to tear it down and build a new one. Same principal the school board should be using fix and repair why did they allow the buildings to deteroriate apparently they don't know what preventative maintainence is all about . As for a new tax levy I believe til we get results from the school showing a marked improvement it s going down in defeat.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rshaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2012 at 9:18am
VV and Retired: Come to one of the community forums and you will find that all of these questions are answered in depth. There have been 6 so far---three at noon, three at 6:30. Each lasts no more than 1 1/2 hours. There are two today at noon and 6:30; the one at 6:30 is at MMS/Vail. A great opportunity to be "inside" the 90 year old building. Find out why Miller Gym will be so expensive to renovate once it is a "stand alone" facility. Further, it is not ADA compliant: there are stairs to get to either the main floor or balcony; there are no Restrooms at floor level, and the ones outside the arena are not handicap accessible. Once modifications are started, the facility must be brought up to current codes. One question that I must ask: where is it indicated that MHS and MMS have not been properly maintained over the years? Also, Verity is not large enough for all 7th and 8th graders---that is why they are at MMS. Finally, should you decide not to attend one of the remaining forums, all of the information (from each meeting/forum) can be readily found on at midddletowncityschools.com. Disclaimer: these are my opinions; I am not a paid employee of the district nor am I a "puppet/parrot" of the district. This comes from 25+ years in facilities' administration in Ohio public schools, and as a nearly life-long resident of Middletown. Respectfully, Rick Shaffer
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Vet, while you may be correct in questioning the facilities plan, I disagree with your refusal to consider demo of Miller gym.  In my mind, this reflects one of THE biggest problems this town has --- the inability to let go of the past and plan for the future.  Whether it's the downtown suckers, those who want the Manchester Inn preserved at any cost, the Barnitz supports (can't upset the second warders can we?), or the Miller gym folks, in my mind the clinging to the past is almost as dangerous as the decisions of any one councilmember. 
 
C'mon people, stop holding on to your memories and plan for the future!
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Originally posted by Neil Barille Neil Barille wrote:

Vet, while you may be correct in questioning the facilities plan, I disagree with your refusal to consider demo of Miller gym.  In my mind, this reflects one of THE biggest problems this town has --- the inability to let go of the past and plan for the future.  Whether it's the downtown suckers, those who want the Manchester Inn preserved at any cost, the Barnitz supports (can't upset the second warders can we?), or the Miller gym folks, in my mind the clinging to the past is almost as dangerous as the decisions of any one councilmember. 
 

C'mon people, stop holding on to your memories and plan for the future!


Neil.....don;t know how old you are. I know when I was younger, old buildings, landmarks and history legacies were of little importance to me. Now, at 63, and being a native Middletonian, I find myself wanting to preserve the past more as time goes by. Just a way of "holding on to yesterday" (que the Ambrosia song), which were infinitely better than now. You know, a sign of happier times for me, that's all.

You state "C'mon people, stop holding on to your memories and plan for the future!" in reference to us older people wanting to preserve the better times. Wonder how your statement would play out in Boston with Fenway Park? How about Chicago with Wrigley Field? Think those fans would receive your comment in a positive fashion? Think they would want to throw tradition out the window? On the other side of the coin, the Indians tore down Municipal Stadium and built Jacobs Field and the Reds demolished Crosley Field and Riverfront Stadium for Great American Ballpark with some success. Works both ways doesn't it? New.....old.....really a community choice. Bottom line......will it work and are most in the community satisfied and accepting of the situation. New isn't always the answer. Haven't we tore down enough in this city for the "new-progressive-demolish crowd" to please them? Sunset Pool, Roosevelt Jr. High, old Wilson, old Jefferson, old McKinley, old Creekview, half the downtown area......all gone with new (or empty lots)in place. The town hardly seems the same anymore to us who have been here since the 50's. If it's demolishing and building new to attain a progressive town, I'm wondering when the "progressive" part is going to kick in. So far, all the demolishing and building new has not done squat for the city as to becoming progressive. When we start to see some positive growth and start seeing the city become attractive to new residents, the "build new" idea will have some validity IMO. Until then, nothing has been done to improve the city enough to be noticed.

I live in the 3rd Ward, not the 2nd, and want to see Barnitz preserved. Again, like the Miller Gym, it has tradition. AND, Barnitz is still one of the nicest high school stadiums around. Have you been to some of the "open bleachers" football facilities at other schools? Doesn't compare with Barnitz. Some are no better than the Pee Wee fields at Smith Park with the open seating. AND, Barnitz is nicer than some small college stadiums and has more capacity (7000 or so, right?) I can't believe that more playoff games are not held at Barnitz.

You also state "In my mind, this reflects one of THE biggest problems this town has --- the inability to let go of the past and plan for the future."

That's where we differ in our outlook of this town. I don't see the "inability to let go of the past" as a problem at all. Rather, I see it as a strength for the people like me that have been here long enough to know the past of this city. Personally, it gives me a basis of comparison between when times were good and the city was run correctly and the cluster it is now. The old ways are not always wrong. Particularly when you have newer, younger people trying to do it their way, refusing to accept age old/time proven ways, then screwing it up, refusing to acknowledge the mistakes and scratching their head wondering how it all went wrong. We older people just sit back, shake our heads and watch the know-it-alls take it on the chin. Comical in a way watching their egos get in the way. Frustrating in another as they refuse to change to what would actually work.
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I'm with Neil here....and comparing places like Wrigley and Fenway (in major cities) to structures in Middletown? No comparison. Those places have major historical significance not to mention current appeal to younger generations while the only significance of Miller gym dates back 50 years. And what "tradition" does Barnitz have other than being in a dumpy part of town and an eyesore for all outsiders who come to a game there. Perhaps that is why more playoff games are not held there, hmmm. And did MHS even win any football titles there...ever?

Your view seems to be that we should sit around and hold on to all our outdated buildings, whether they are obsolete or eyesores, just because of a fondness for the past and that growth will just happen despite this.

Your desire to preserve may have merit if we were in a town that was succeeding and had positive growth and things happening. This town is not. The only way you pull a town out of the dumper is to think radically, progressively, and always with an eye for the future. But we all know our council and Judy are not good at doing this.

Sadly this town does not have the luxury of holding on to all things old to make all the Social Security aged residents feel good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 11 2012 at 7:50pm
Ok.....Stanky- Neil, tear it all down. Let's get modern. Forget history....tradition.....not important anymore. The only way to rebuild Middletown is to tear down the past and erase any history the town may have had. The foolish thinking of a younger generation IMO. Everyone raises hell about the new kids on the block, changing the way it has worked for many years, stepping on the world you are use to. Your time will come. It is time honored. The previous generation bitches about the current one. You will too.

"comparing places like Wrigley and Fenway (in major cities) to structures in Middletown? No comparison."

Oh really? The passion about the Middletown sports tradition (including the facilities) are not as engrained in this small town because it is not as large as Chicago or Boston? Are you sure? The intensity of tradition can be at all levels in all sizes of towns. Look at little Germantown with Valley View. Don't think some of those Germantown folks are just as passionate about Valley View football as Boston folks are about their Red Sox or Celtics? Bet those folks associated with Hamilton's West Side team in the Little League World Series are just as passionate about the kids success as the folks who frequent Great American Ballpark and root for the Reds. Hamilton's team has developed a TRADITION of winning. To some, Wade E. Miller Gym and the successful history that it produced is just as revered in this town as Boston Gardens is to the Celtics fans. Small venue versus major market venue, but the passion is still the same....so is the tradition achieved through the facilities....again, at a different level.


"Sadly this town does not have the luxury of holding on to all things old to make all the Social Security aged residents feel good".

Good one Stanky. Nice shot on the age/feel good thing.
Instead of, as you say, "holding on to all things old to make all the Social Security aged residents feel good", I prefer to look at the age comment as "closer to retirement". I've got 6 1/2 more years to hit 51 working years and retirement at age 70. There are advantages to being in the "Social Security crowd". It's called not having to put up with the bs at work anymore. And you have how much longer to work? Need a rope?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2012 at 8:36am
amen neal and stanky
I fit into Vet's age group, and I love Wade E gym and Barnitz.
The old high school has past it's time, and the hoops gym probably has to go with it. Love watching games there as much or more than anyone. Never miss, and sit directly behind the bench. Behind the game action, the place is an embarrassment to visitors. Honestly don't care for the sterile new gyms of our league opponants either, and Moeller's venue is tiny.
 
Barnitz can stay--why not the new middle school down at the old Armco offices site?
Area should be high-tech wired already--close to Rosa Parks, the new health center, Barnitz could add an athletic/health complex + new turf. Would serve the area well by adding much needed balance. Good enough for Cincy St. isn't it?
 
Same with the former downtown area.
If you are under 50, you probably have no attachment there, and can't understand city govt.'s obsession.
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2012 at 9:53am

All this talk about new buildings yet no one is calling out the board or the Super about the dismal disciplinary situation that has not changed.  No tough love, no suspensions....nothing to see here, all is well.  Do they think we're stupid?  Why would those who pulled their kids out of MCSD ever consider coming back when nothing has been done about the many behavior problems that seem to be prevalant from middle school on up?  All you have to do is talk to the teachers and you'll get the real information.  Hello, McFly?!

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jsmith2011 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsmith2011 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2012 at 11:50am
Bill - I hate to tell you this but it starts in the elementary schools not middle school. I've seen out of control preschoolers.

Instead of sending them home...of course, the parents don't answer the phone...they put the student in the office or the hall and you can hear them throughout the school. The only ones that suffer are the other students. And the disruptive student is back the next day doing it all over again.

Of course, the school district doesn't want to make anyone mad so they let it go and then the student takes it to middle school and high school. That's exactly why the good students and good families are leaving Middletown Schools. Whoever said it in one of these posts was right, those families aren't coming back. Do you know how many teachers in the district send their own children to John XXIII? A LOT

Go down Breiel Blvd. when the school buses are letting the students out at the high school in the morning. Some of them are just using the school buses for transportation from the other end of town, they never go near the school building, they get off the bus and walk down Breiel. They are across the street on the brick wall smoking, hiding around the corners of the building smoking. The administrators can't see that out the windows?

But the teachers are supposed to coddle them and be their family. When did all that start? When did the teacher become their friend instead of their teacher?



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ground swat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 12 2012 at 2:25pm
In 1977 for me. Skipping school is not new. What's going on in the school is my question.
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2012 at 7:17am

Well, last evening was the final meeting of the School Facilities Committee.

Out of the many options that we had considered through the months, it was finally narrowed down to TWO options to be presented to the Board of Education this coming Monday.

Items of interest:

Neither the most expensive nor the least expensive options made the final cut.

The most expensive option was the last one eliminated.

The SECOND least expensive option made the final cut.

The least expensive option was added fairly late in the process, and grew out of suggestions by none other than me.

Ms. Katie McNeil (Prez of the Board of Education) showed up at one of the Community Input Meetings and expressed a preference for “Option 4” (the least expensive option).  

I nearly fell out of my chair upon learning that Ms. McNeil and I agreed upon something!!!  Big%20smile LOL

I think that, as far as the school district officials involved are concerned, this was an open process.  All sides were allowed to be heard and they tried to remain impartial.  On the other hand, it certainly seemed that some of the committee members had their minds made up before they came into the room for the first meeting and they were never open to any other viewpoint.

My suggestion to the Board would be to “value engineer” the heck out of the project, and to resist the stance that fancy “monuments” to education will draw higher class residents to the city.  What goes on INSIDE the buildings will draw or repel new residents, not what we spend on “glamourization”.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2012 at 12:04pm
While your suggestion is well-intended, it will fall upon deaf ears. I never saw (and I read every PPT available), that any analysis of import was presented regarding maintaining the buildings without building a new one or two. So, with the stacked down on the "Committee", the Board sits back and has the best of both worlds....it isn't their decision to not build at least one building, based upon the "Committee's recommendation. Will Ms. McNeil argue against adopting any of the options presented based upon her objections?

The Audi A7 won, the fan belt lost.

As Gomer would say..."SURPRISE, SURPRISE"!,



Well, get ready for more FOR SALE/ FOR LEASE signs to go up. Monuments don't drive influx of people in, performance does. And, it continues the downward spiral. Sad.   
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 27 2012 at 1:45pm
As expected, all options led to something new being built somewhere. Nothing else on the table, even before the meetings started. The deck was stacked from the very beginning on this "open forum" and ended a passification event for the community. If one of the options to consider wasn't to maintain what they had and not build new, it was hardly an "open to any ideas forum". City council works the same way. You can offer any suggestion you wish in front of them, but if the suggestion doesn't meet with their pre-conceived notions of acceptability, they won't listen. And the beat goes on, never changing, never open-minded, never diverse in thinking.......never for the people.
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