Rusty Gutters
Printed From: MiddletownUSA.com
Category: Middletown Community
Forum Name: Middletown News, Info and Happenings
Forum Description: Discuss any Middletown Ohio area news story.
URL: http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1151
Printed Date: Apr 27 2024 at 1:38am
Topic: Rusty Gutters
Posted By: here&now
Subject: Rusty Gutters
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 12:11pm
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I came home from work yesterday and had a letter from the City of Middletown and The US Department of Housing and urban Development (HUD) waiting for me. In short it said that my gutters were rusty and need to be replaced or I could face city code enforcement. After looking up the "code" I found that this means the if not done in 30 days the city will replace them for me and send the bill. Are my gutters rusty? sure they are, there gutters and they tend to get that way. Did I need to the City to tell me this?No I did not! So after calling the number given, and asking for someone to come out and tell me why this is such a problem for Middletown (No one came). I decided drive around town taking pictures of what I thought were bigger issues that "they" should be concerned with. And believe me when I say I could have drove all day. My point is this: In a time when people are struggling to keep their jobs and their houses it behooves me to think that I must now go spend money that I don't have to replace what wasn't bothering me in the first place. Instead for being concerned with all the boarded up houses in town and the failing businesses, It's my gutters that are a problem for the City. http://www.flickr.com/photos/randyllewis/sets/72157615849098445/ - Click here if you would like to see pics of my outrageous gutters and http://www.flickr.com/photos/randyllewis/sets/72157615848219089/?photo_deleted=3387026421 - here for the other pictures I took yesterday. http://www.middletownusa.com/images/gutters.jpg">  http://www.middletownusa.com/images/gutters.jpg - Click here for large image |
Replies:
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 12:36pm
| here&now- Work computer system won't allow me to look at your pictures.Given that, there are two ways to decifer this. Are the gutters actually rusted through and leaking water OR- gutters are discolored with a rust color and need to be painted ,not replaced??? If only rust colored, a few hours on a ladder and a gallon of paint should satisfy the requirement and be a cheap fix. However, rust color may bleed through. Hope it's not a total replacement for you. Will try to look at your pictures on the home computer with no filters after work. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 12:41pm
This is a joke from a city whose infrastructure is crumbling, has more brownfields and abandonded buildings than New Orleans after Katrina and they are going to start this. Trying to get the city to fix anything is a like pulling teeth....."we don't have the money" they continually say.
Time to storm City Council with several 100 or even better several 1000 and demand some answers and action. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 12:49pm
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Here&now:
Is it possible that you have upset someone at City Hall recently??
Just a thought...don't know why it crossed my mind. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 1:09pm
If that is the case Mike look out, they will probably bring the whole inspection Dept. to your home.  ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Bwood
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 1:11pm
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Didn't Middletown just get some money for housing renovations? Maybe you are eligible to get them replaced with that money. Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Emergency Home Repair - This program is intended to provide minor home repair grants to low income homeowners of Middletown. Eligible repairs are those which pose an immediate or crucial threat to the health and safety of the household. Such repairs include:
For more information, please contact Kyle Fuchs at (513) 425-7950. ------------- Looking for news or information on display technology? If so Visit the http://amonitorblog.blogspot.com/ - Monitor Blog |
Posted By: here&now
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 2:10pm
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VietVet- The gutters are just rusted, not leaking or falling off and some paint is enough to fix the problem. I just thought it was funny that this is what our City has to worry about. I do plan on painting them this weekend, but is not how I wanted to spend my days off.
I do hope you can check out the pictures, I believe you'll get a kick out of the things I saw.
Mike- I did not upset anyone at City Hall but it was the first thing I thought of as well.
 |
Posted By: randy
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 2:19pm
| Pacman- Let me know when you have this planned and you can count me in. I have a few questions I would like to see if they can answer. |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 5:35pm
 Bring 'em on!! They'll have to deal with my wife--she does all of the maintenance here!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Pacman wrote:Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 5:38pm
Ooops...wait...how fast must one be able to move to be qualified to "STORM"??? ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 6:14pm
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Mike for you we will make it a Hurricaine you know one of those Florida ones that just slowly moves up the coast over a few days. Ah I don't miss those suckers.
But truthfully the only way to get some answers at a council meeting would be for a large, very large group to show up. Citizens comments, I think Council just sits their and day dreams now and says next...........
Need a few good speakers and lots of backup. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 6:48pm
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So...would a City employee actually fix the gutters...OR...would they hire a business inside/outside the City to fix your gutters.....
I truly don't understand unless your house if falling apart. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 6:48pm
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I will be speaking at the next City Council Meeting |
Posted By: here&now
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 7:05pm
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MadisonMom- That is a very good question you asked and to answer you. No the house is in really good shape, are there things I would like to improve upon? Of course but what home owner doesn't have things they would like to do to there house? |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 7:12pm
Are the gutters rusty on the vault in Pioneer Cemetery??? Perhaps we should send an appropriately edited version of Mr. Tuttle's letter to the City!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Impala SS
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 7:43pm
| So are we going to storm city hall council meeting on April 7, 2009? If so count me in also, we need to tell them to wash the windows on second floor. You can barely see through them check em out. |
Posted By: tomahawk35
Date Posted: Mar 26 2009 at 9:38pm
| Count me in as a backup, you don't me to speak because of my short temper when I speak to morons. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 27 2009 at 3:10pm
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hey--at least two of my co-workers recieved the same letter, so there are probably a lot of these notices out there. I wouldn't worry about it.
HEY CITY PEOPLE:
Times are tough, and families living in these homes being scrutinized hardly have the funding for major home repairs, UNLESS y'all are ready to start using the HUD,CDBG and other grant funding towards those who need it, INSTEAD of down S.Main St. on the old mansions.
Why not start by visiting citizens to first encourage cleaning off their front porches,front yards,back yards and alleys? These efforts would only require a sincere effort and would cost next to nothing. Plus it would dramatically improve the overall appearance of our community and maybe inspire neighborhoods to maintain a good look.
The city is going to need the citizens come November, and currently there isn't much sympathy/support for the municipals. If ya want to slam the door shut now, go right ahead! The yob u save may be yer own!
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 29 2009 at 10:33am
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Mike Presta Ms. Moon
Are the gutters rusty on the vault in Pioneer Cemetery??? Perhaps we should send an appropriately edited version of Mr. Tuttle's letter to the City!!! Hey Mike I have a SPECIAL GIFT for Mr. Tuttle at the next Council Meeting. The vault doesn't even have any gutters or downspouts anymore because they rusted away years ago. The VIOLATIONS on the vault at the cemetery could fill an entire page....but the City doesn't have the money because times are tough....REALLY! However now the City is sending these letters to Senior citizens who can hardly pay their Duke bills and demanding they improve their properties...to young couples that have lost their jobs and living on unemployment and demanding they repair their properties....I'm afraid the the City has made a major mistake this time. I believe a Citizen's Revolt is about to occur. Spider has the correct approach to this "Clean Up Project". |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Mar 29 2009 at 12:04pm
| If this is really important to the city that they are sending out letters to property owners, Ann Mort's group is taking ideas for their list to improve Middletown. Perhaps Mort needs to place these "rusty gutter" projects on her list as they present the types of problems that Mort and her group want corrected to improve the image of the town. Property owner buys the paint- Mort's group supplies the elbow grease if the property owners are unable to do so. Just a suggestion. How about a barter system where the owner gets this work done in exchange for donating some time to one of Mort's projects. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Mar 29 2009 at 2:30pm
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Gee I just wonder how many times the city has violated it's own ordinances and used the excuse we don't have the money to fix the problem, or is the City exempt from fixing any of the issues it is responsible for? ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 29 2009 at 3:39pm
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Pacman If they can force the homeowners to clean and repair their propety then you can also make a business owner clean up their property...If Mr. Tuttle needs any help I have about 150 photographs that I'll be happy to share with him.
Hey I'm such a sweet little old lady that I'm even willing to do a "Show & Tell" at a Council Meeting. |
Posted By: here&now
Date Posted: Mar 30 2009 at 11:11am
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So here is the latest on my gutter situation. I found a phone number to call about this "assistance" the city has for these repairs of my gutters and the countless other people that received letters like mine. And the truth is there is not much "assistance at all. In fact a was told that I could fill out an application for a loan from the city at 3 percent and pay it back over 15 years. Now 3 percent is a great rate, I just found it funny that a city that is broke can loan me money at such a great rate. I did ask for the application to be mailed to me,why not ?  I would like to thank everyone for all the comments and if we are storming City Hall please let me know when. |
Posted By: retired co
Date Posted: Mar 31 2009 at 12:10pm
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Being retired and somewhat disabled myself I can sympathize with a lot of these poor folks. However why don't they get on these section 8 slum lords that folks are living in houses that should be condemned homes.
I have complained about a rental with trash trees growing up all over the back yard the condition of the roof on the house and was told they can't make the landlord cut the trees or clean up the brush . The area is a breeding ground for mosquitos in the summer also we have opossums and racoons using the area. I try to maintain my place as best as I can but I have had to hire somethings done for the up keep. I know of 2 instances of where an elderly lady had a notice sent to her about her privacy fence being replaced because rentals next door have destroyed it. I also know of a woman who has to paint the dormers windows in her place which is nearly impossible to get to without a lift.
While across the street from her are windows broken out yards look like rumpke mountain junk cars sitting on the streets . Same lady has to put a roof on a old garage
within 30 days and she has been told by her employer no pay raises in the next few years .
SO if you live on a fixed income , you are laid off, lost a job, or can't expect any pay raises for a few years you get notices to fix it. Well Middletown where is the money they are going to get their money trees are bare. I believe that come election time some of the ones on council will be joining some of our less fortunate in the unemployment line.
I'll say it for those less fortunate folks that are citizens of this armpit of a town. What part of we don't have the money for your demands don't you understand.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 31 2009 at 3:43pm
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I read where 2300 of these letters have been mailed.
Wouldn't it be interesting if all 2300 contested the allegations and requested a court hearing? Mr.Adkins might be tied up for quite a while, also upsetting the criminal docket and prep.
Still--a united visit to the next Council session could be an option.
Would everyone be given an opportunity to speak, like during the Section 8 session?
Remember--these are citizens, not accused of any crime, and would be expressing their right to address their "accuser"(in this case the city).
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Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Mar 31 2009 at 4:14pm
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Hey Spider, Were these 2300 letters send to all wards or just certain wards? This is a good question to ask at the next Council Meeting. |
Posted By: John Beagle
Date Posted: Mar 31 2009 at 5:48pm
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I would take that loan and get my gutters fixed. 15 yr loan means cost per month would be very affordable.
------------- http://www.johnbeagle.com/" rel="nofollow - John Beagle Middletown USA News of, for and by the people of Middletown, Ohio. |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Mar 31 2009 at 6:51pm
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A 15-year loan to fix rusty gutters? Why not just paint them?
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Posted By: retired co
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 10:03am
| A 15 year loan with money as tight as it is for some folks. barley meeting mortgagae payments ,utillities and purchasing groceries. No momey to pay the loan back get yourself behind and they would step in take your home for a default . Then turn it into another section 8 house . I would love to know who has all these homes and is getting the money from sec8 I hope they can sleep well at night. They are destroying our little city turning it into a armpit. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 10:40am
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Retired co put in a request for a list of all Section 8 Choice Voucher residences in Middletown and who owns them. As it is our tax payer money paying for it I would think it would be Public Info. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 2:32pm
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Pacman |
Posted By: retired co
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 2:45pm
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Pacman First of all let me apologize for my typos I get mad and get in a hurry typing I try to correct them but I still miss a few. 2nd I doubt if I requested the list from the city if they would give them too me . Could it be that someone on council may have their hands in the section 8 vouchers with rental coming from section 8?
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 4:57pm
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CO: Sir, yes they will give it to you. I have an electronic copy. It is 595 page Adobe Portable Document Format (.PDF) document or I would post it here. Many pages list one owner with one property. Each unique owner has his/her/their/its properties listed on a separate page. There are no obvious suspects listed. However, there are many, many properties owned by LLCs, Corporations, “Groups”, etc. with names that do not give a clue regarding the actual owners’ identities. (For example: names similar to ABC, Inc., Scarlet & Purple LLC, The Oak Tree Group, etc.) There are also some names that sound familiar and may be mothers’ or even grandmothers’) maiden names. With a lot of digging, one could probably find the principals of such companies, but I would hazard a guess that there would be a further trail to follow to find the “real” owners. (I saw at least one property, having nothing to do with any government official, that I am fairly certain was set up as a tax shelter.) All of that having been said, the info is available to you or any other citizen but it will not easily yield any actionable information. If I knew your email, I would send you an e-copy. PS to Vivian: If you want a copy, let me know. I will email it.------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 5:30pm
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OK--envision our downtown area, with all of the new storefronts, and east up Central without the new storefronts.
Look above those new storefronts and up Central to notice all of the broken windows, broken window sills, destroyed roofing, brick work and GUTTERS.
I WONDER JUST HOW MANY OF THOSE BUILDING OWNERS WERE CITED?
Also--if 2300 notifications were issued, then we could assume that the entire city was inspected. Why else would the city send out so many letters if the job of inspecting the entire city had not been completed? Surely there wouldn't be other areas to be inspected later, would there?
So--how long did this take, and who actually did the work?
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 01 2009 at 6:15pm
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Has anyone heard from that "alien" poster??? He seemed to know all about "Moving Middletown Forward", maybe he could help us out on this mystery, too. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 02 2009 at 4:19am
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Spider Maybe at the next Council Meeting they will inform us of which wards or areas have been inspected and by whom.
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Posted By: wannaknow
Date Posted: Apr 02 2009 at 5:35am
| I wonder if they inspected the Riverside mobile home community on Rt. 4. They had a sting there a few years ago, police and health inspectors, and told the park to clean it up. The noise died down and it's worse than ever. Abandoned trailers for the homeless and drug users to hide in to do their drugs, hundreds of cats and dogs. It should be leveled. |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 7:41am
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April 4, 2009 Middletown Journal ”So Ashworth, along with longtime city advocate Ann Mort, and six committee members — all under the age of 40 — met and compiled a list of potential community projects.
As of right now, Ashworth said there are 186 projects that are completed, in progress or on the drawing board. He said community members, along with nonprofits and business owners, have responded to the call.”
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Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 7:56am
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It certainly would have been nice if the six "other committee members" would have had their names mentioned. Even just a little bit of recognition would have been nice. ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 8:19am
Maybe that is why we have only "POTENTIAL VIOLATIONS".  ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 8:50am
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Now, now boys....you really need to show a little PRIDE in your City. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 4:56pm
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Pride in Action
Co-Chairs Ann Mort and Sam Ashworth
Division Chairs
Chris Papakirk
Maria Langendorf
Jeff Michel
Marie Edwards ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 10:07pm
A Trailer Park is considered 1 owner. I learned this from Ike blowing thru. Catalina had lots of damage from the storm. They were without electricity (the longest in Madison Township, Butler County) BECAUSE they were considered 1 owner/1 resident. Red Cross helped them out with ice, etc. The students of Madison were allowed to take showers at the schools if they needed. Maybe that's where the problem lies? Landlords? I have noticed lots of empty trailers in the last month at Riverside. |
Posted By: MadisonMom
Date Posted: Apr 04 2009 at 10:13pm
I really don't understand why you guys have a problem with this. They are volunteers. What is wrong with cleaning up? Of course I know you'll say "that's not gonna fix the problem with City Council" etc.......... Who gives a crap at this point? They are not using tax payer money,,,,,I would think you'd be happy with that? What is the different between Price In Action and Keep Middletown Beautiful? Who only seem to work a couple of months a year? Oh and by the way, receives grant money. |
Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 2:12am
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MadisonMom I have no problem with them cleaning the whole state of Ohio if they like. The problem comes in when Mort & Ashworth put out statements that they are going to show Forbes that Middletown is not dying and we are going to send them a list of all the tidying up we did and invite them to come to Middletown and see what a lovely job we did. This has gone on and on and on since the Forbes article. Now if they would stop using the Forbes article as the reason they are doing this when the Forbes article absolutely stated nothing about cleaning up and painting some fences, etc. What it did list as the issues are: "Forbes magazine declared Middletown one of the U.S.’s fastest dying towns Tuesday, ranking No. 10 in the nation.
According to Forbes, Middletown’s poverty level jumped from 12 percent in 2000 to 22 percent in 2007. The town’s median household income is only $37,000. Both were factors in the ranking.
Forbes also took into account the education level of a town’s residents. In Middletown, 12.2 percent of residents have a bachelor’s degree or better. Forbes listed education levels as one factor in a town’s financial well-being.
Forbes based its rankings on data compiled by the U.S. Census Bureau from 2005-2007." Now no one from this group including Mort and Ashworth even acknowledges publicly that these are serious issues in Middletown. They are hiding behind taking care of some medians and taking care of back alley's, which is fine but don't pretend that these were the issues that Forbes used to determine Middletown was number 10 on the dying list.
The Journal runs article after article about Mort and Ashworth and not one time that I have read where they asked Mort and Ashworth about the real issues as listed in the article and why they don't speak out on these issues, which are the real issues surrounding Middletown's decline. Not trash on a median strip on Roosevelt Blvd.
Mort and Ashworth's group get Journal coverage time after time that says the exact same thing. Why isn't the Journal, covering more on Section 8, subsidized housing, Low Average income, Educational issues, The current high Poverty rate. Just because the Council pounds their fists on a table and states it's not true and makes excuses for the problems means we shove them under a damn rug, and stick our heads in the sand. Then we create a PR group to make it look like the issues with Forbes are as simple as making a long list of cleanup projects that we all should be doing anyways and invite Forbes to Town to see we are not dying. If I was Forbes I would look at the leaders and tell them, "you have serious problems and you are trying to cover them up with some paint and garbage bags, good bye".
Please someone show us where Forbes listed cosmetics as an issue, even though Middletown could use a face lift in some areas, in Middletown when making their determination:
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying.html - http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying.html
http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000 - http://www.forbes.com/2008/12/08/towns-ten-economy-forbeslife-cx_mw_1209dying_slide_2.html?thisspeed=25000
10. Middletown, OhioSituated between Dayton and Cincinnati, Middletown has declined in step with much of Greater Ohio. The town's median household income is $37,000, and its poverty level has jumped from 12% in 2000 to 22% in 2007. And it's not likely to get better anytime soon. With only 12.2% of residents possessing bachelor's degrees or better, the city isn't a prime candidate to attract highly skilled jobs that have lifted some other post-industrial cities. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Mike_Presta
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 3:14am
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Well said, Pacman.
And this latest Middletown Journal article seemed to somehow try to put Sam on the same level as George Verity!!! How unkind and insensitive to Mr. Verity's descendents.
Ask anyone who knew Mr. Verity. Sam Ashworth is no George Verity!!!
And just as with trying to get Middletown off the Forbes "fastest dying cities" list, wishing won't make it so!!! ------------- “Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012 |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 7:14am
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hey mad mom KEEP MIDDLETOWN BEAUTIFUL has been around a long time and doeas a lot year round.
The current version, led by Mr.Michel, has been extremely active and picking up steam. This group actually gets the bodies together and physically does the work mostly through private donations.
The PRIDE group is mostly organizational. With the younger group leaders, it shows long-term potential. Best thing they could do is quickly replace Ann & Sam as the figurehead leaders. The concept is encouraging(as you mention), and these younger names/faces are quality citizens with tremendous potential as future city leaders.
And in our current condition, we might as well step into the future now!!
No--these groups won't drastically alter the economic situations mentioned by packman,mike and Forbes, but it WILL make an overall improvement on our community. It will possibly also begin new political liasons among the younger volunteers to foster more openness and involvement of those differing concepts towards management of our city.
I see it as a good thing, and the beginning of a changing of the OLD guard around here.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 9:58am
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"Best thing they could do is quickly replace Ann & Sam as the figurehead leaders."
Spider, you can change the leadership, but if you don't change the message what is the sense? If the younger crowd as they are called ignore the true issues, their actions become detrimental to the City as a whole. It mis-leads the citizenry, it does not deal with our most pressing problems, it only does a dis-service to the community.
If "Pride In Action" is on a mission to clean up the City go for it
 , but do it with the right message and not with the pretense that Forbes is going to come to town and bless the City. "No--these groups won't drastically alter the economic situations mentioned by packman,mike and Forbes, but it WILL make an overall improvement on our community."
I don't think anyone is disputing that it is good for the community, it is the message that is being used by the group that at least I find mis-leading and a distraction to the true issues.
As much as I hate to recommend another committee for a City over run by committees, this City needs a Committee which is not shackled by, who you are, who you know, what business you own, who you work for and will truly have the ear of The Council and City Administration at this time neither the City nor the Admin is prepared to face the true issues bringing Middletown down. You need a true Citizens led group, made up of Citizens from all wards, businesses of all type big and small, no Council members, No city admin, no citizen employees to ry and steer the committee in the direction they want.
The City and Council seem to be in Distraction mode and content to mis-lead the Citizens and just go on as they have for the last 30 years, with little accomplishments to their names.
------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: VietVet
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 10:16am
Spider- I hope you're correct in your statement about the beginning of change in the old guard around here. We need it. I'm still not sure about how some new under 40 people on a community cleanup project might transition to the old guard change you mention, but if it happens, it might be a good thing. Probably can't be any worse than the  we have running the town now. If they do take the step of running for office in the future, I hope they won't allow the current crew to influence their thinking. If they allow that, we won't be any better off in the future than we are now- just younger people, with closed minds, carrying on the same failed thinking of the current regime, oblivious to the wishes of the people.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 10:34am
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The 4 people other than Mort and Ashworth on the Board were hand picked by Mort and Ashworth, prior to the first meeting the selection had been made, so you draw your own conclusions as to what influence Mort and Ashworth have with them. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 10:41am
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MadisonMom & Spider |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 10:54am
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MadisonMom & Spider |
Posted By: here&now
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 11:20am
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Today is such a beautiful day that I think I will spend the afternoon painting my horrid gutters. So if you drive down the street and see a skinny guy on a ladder yelling at his wife to go back inside , please feel free to stop and have a beer.
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Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 11:53am
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Maybe y'all should quit trying to connect the Pride clean-up group with the political/economic mess in our city. They are not united--only in the minds of a few here.
Pacman--I hear your message(hourly/daily/weekly/monthly). This is obviously not a political group at this time, and the younger names mentioned are all sharp thinkers with minds of their own. They are hardly tied to the city thinking and dark sider stranglehold. You may not know much about them(your loss--do the research), but I am familiar with all of them to varying degrees. I have confidence in every one of them, but NO--they might not be in lock-step with YOUR thinking either. None of them(including Mort and Ashworth) have a f'n thing to do with Section 8 or rusty gutters(although Ms.Edwards works with the city manager I believe).
Vet---it's just a small hopefully positive beginning. I'll guarantee that you will get a better listen and understanding from these younger names. They have a lot of younger friends who think a lot more like us also. This old guard is firmly entrenched, and we won't take them out quickly or easily.
BUT WE WILL TAKE THEM OUT.
WE WILL FIND A WAY--AND IT WILL BE SUPPORTED BY A LARGE COMMUNITY MAJORITY.
Just let this group do THEIR thing, hopefully with your blessing and support. Why not spend a few days helping them and getting to know them? Then come back here to post your thoughts.
The govt./economic mess is bigger than all of us and the city leaders. A lot happening is not in our or their control. Let's just work on what we can.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 1:44pm
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Spider you seem to miss the whole point and are happy to let this group contact Forbes next year and present their list and have nothing accomplished other than picking up some garbage, which is fine. But at the end of the day we will Still be Number 10 on the dying City list. You are happy to let the little issues take the day while the larger issues are pushed to the back. That is the thinking that has Middletown in the mess it is. Knock yourself out. Maybe I have found a new product to sell in my store, blinders for the Middletown Elite.
------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: spiderjohn
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 3:13pm
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pacman--I am not missing any of this. Forbes article just caused this group to begin the spruce up effort. Doesn't even mention the problems that have become your obsession. We will be a cleaner city and will have hopefully formed new constructive friendships that lead to eventual political action groups. Melding different political ideologies while working side by side improving the appearance of the community could be a giant step forward. It is worth the effort. Sitting here pounding on a keyboard doesn't seem to be accomplishing much. You have 755 posts here and have accomplished just what? Are you in contact with your ward Councilperson about your concerns? The at-large Councilmembers? Have you editorialized in the MJ? Are you a regular speaker at Council meetings? There is no one wearing blinders around here. Most are VERY aware of the problems and issues.
Middletown ELITE?
I don't know anyone around here feeling entitled or special right now.
PRIDE members are ELITE? LOL
Maybe you should put away your keyboard for a while and join up to do some work and interact with these people. Espouse your beliefs while working with them.
You hardly know what makes me happy or how I prioritize local concerns. I am simply not going to diss this group for doing what they are doing. I am grateful for their efforts.
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Posted By: Pacman
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 4:37pm
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Hahahaha my obsession. Lets compare that to yours and the leaders of Middletown who can't even sit down look at the camera and say we have some serious issues to solve. I am not obsessed with Middletowns problems, what I am obsessed with is that something be done about them. Something more than "Middletown has a bright Future'. Gee Spider I spent the day picking up 10 bags of leaves, twigs and gabage, can I get on the list to Forbes now. My God you people can't see the forest for the trees. Who is dissing this group? I have not heard one person say that their cleanup effort is not admirable. What people are saying is that they are doing it for the wrong reason, The Forbes article. Or they don't agree with the tactics the city is using. Or they are dissatisfied with the Leadership of the City.
You say I am obsessed yet the Journal does repeated articles on the same issue "Pride In Action" over and over and over again and yet you think that is wonderful. Just because some of us don't share the "Middletown has a Bright Future" because we do a cleanup that we should be doing anyways, without all of the hoopla. I'll tell you what the Next time I cleanup around here I'll hire the High School band, which I enjoy listening to in the afternoon and evenings during their practices, to play the Middie School Song while I do it and call the Journal out for a Photo Op. ------------- When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson |
Posted By: Vivian Moon
Date Posted: Apr 05 2009 at 5:47pm
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After fighting with the City behind closed doors for over five years |