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swohio75 View Drop Down
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    Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:30pm
Will be interesting to see how this unfolds but it could have great potential for Middletown.

New branch campus in works for Butler County
Cincinnati State officials agree to partner to open new school in Middletown

CINCINNATI — More educational opportunities may be headed to Middletown as Cincinnati State Technical and Community College officials passed a resolution to partner with the city to establish a branch campus.

As part of the agreement, announced during the board of trustees meeting Tuesday night at the school’s main campus, the college will begin negotiating a long-term agreement to open a branch campus while Middletown will offer buildings “free and clear” to Cincinnati State for its use.

The initial start-up would center on the school’s culinary arts and hospitality programs. College President Dr. O’dell Owens said eventually the school would offer its full line of courses in Middletown.

Dan Cayse, vice president of strategic initiatives and entrepreneurial development, said the college is interested in acquiring the Manchester Inn and Conference Center, the former Middletown Senior Center at 140 N. Verity Parkway and the former CG&E Building at 1 N. Main St., the current home of The Middletown Journal.

Owens said the college has a key interest in the Manchester since it is “the heart of Middletown” and would work “to protect the Manchester” by rehabbing the building and adding green energy such as solar panels and a geothermal system. Meanwhile, the CG&E building would serve as the campus hub for classrooms, laboratories and administrative services.

The deal has been in the works since September 2009 when late local businessman Perry Thatcher invited Cincinnati State’s resident chef to cook at the Manchester, Cayse said.

School officials estimate 15 percent of Cincinnati State’s students come from the Middletown area. Coupled with the city’s central location and public transit system that can bring students from across the Butler County, Owens said the branch campus is poised for success.

“This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity and this really ensures the longevity of Cincinnati State,” he said. “It will give us the opportunity to grow and expand and for Middletown to gain another tool to draw business to the city.”

In the coming weeks, city and school officials will be negotiating financing and building acquisitions, as well as a time frame for campus start-up.

Mayor Larry Mulligan said the branch campus should have a positive impact the region.
“There is a big untapped market in Middletown and the whole region. (The college) offers a curriculum our residents haven’t had access to in the past.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:38pm
I predict it won't take long for the ModdletownUSA naysayers to pounce of this development with negative babble.
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swohio75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:41pm
If this happens, Middletown will have three institutions for higher learning:

Miami Middletown
Greentree Health Science Academy
Cincinnati State

Not to mention the proposed Kingswell Seminary, if that ever gets off the ground.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Mtown Mtown wrote:

I predict it won't take long for the ModdletownUSA naysayers to pounce of this development with negative babble.
MTown, you are so negative,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voice of Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:51pm
I am cautiously optimistic that this is great news for the city.  Credit goes to the city staff and whoever else helped to bring this to fruition (assuming it actually happens, of course).  Good for Middletown!
"Ask not what your country can do for you..." JFK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PattiGal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:55pm
Wonderful news!
"Because nice matters..."
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swohio75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:


The initial start-up would center on the school’s culinary arts and hospitality programs. College President Dr. O’dell Owens said eventually the school would offer its full line of courses in Middletown.


This is the part that excites me the most.

Full line of courses could mean students downtown--likely both day and night.

15% of 20,000 (their project current enrollment) would be 3,000.

Even if we could get half that # at a Middletown Campus--1,500

The one issue with using the Cinergy Building is that Casper and Casper is located on several of the floors. If they need to be relocated to another facility, I would hope effort is made to keep them downtown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 26 2010 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by Mtown Mtown wrote:

I predict it won't take long for the ModdletownUSA naysayers to pounce of this development with negative babble.
Amazing "prediction", Mtown!!!  It's almost as if you could see into the PAST!!!  (http://www.middletownusa.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3406)
 
Do you do parties???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 2:33am
As part of the agreement, announced during the board of trustees meeting Tuesday night at the school’s main campus, the college will begin negotiating a long-term agreement to open a branch campus while Middletown will offer buildings “free and clear” to Cincinnati State for its use.

Yep ya got me really excited about this deal.
So the City will buy the Manchester Inn and then give it to Cincinnati State?
I can't wait to see what we will be paying for this property.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 7:07am
Logic would say that these buildings should be purchased for $1.  These same buildings couldn't be given away when Mr. Thatcher was alive.
 
Hey, with all these students coming downtown maybe we need to build a PARKING GARAGE! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 7:35am
perpetual denigration and negativism from troll mtown--so predictable and non-productive.
Personality trait obviously
 
should be a great fit for this area, since Cincy St. trains students for more common mid-level employment opportunities.
 
If it takes "outside experts" to make something happen here, it is great to see the city finally move past the old names/faces who have kept that area in shambles. Please do us a favor and take their properties also.
 
Cincy St. is a realistic common-sense opportunity that may also rid the area of more architectural dinosaurs.
 
It will also bring into play the "other" entrances to the city, lightening the pressure on the I-75 bottleneck.
Rt.4, Rt.73 and Rt.122--entrances from the north,south and west.
Hopefully some positive balance will be restored, and the former downtown area will be relavent again.
 
Looking forward to it!
 
 
4 a great time right here in river city, join us at Finkleman on 11/13!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 8:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 10:05am
Cincinnati State has many excellent Associates Degree programs in medicine, culinary, fire safety, IT, et al. IBM hires a number of Cincinnati State students whom have been excellent employees at many top tier companies. What is exciting and POSITIVE about this development is it expands the attractivemenss of Middletown for residents to move in to have access to so many excellent feeder institutions. These includeMUM, and the others spiderjohn referenced or others. 
 
Where Middletown misses the boat in city hall and council is it just doesn't get what makes West Chester, Mason, and Liberty Township so attractive to residents: NO TAXES! That is why Middletown cannot compete, along with so many well documented problems already communicated. So, the addition of Cinci State just adds another + to the city and its residents, and abiliy to attract new residents, in the sense a resident can sell a homewith a buyer knowing if they have young adults, they have MUM, which feeds Miami at Oxford, Cinci State, which offers a good career path to the mid tier career positions or the students can continue on at any number of quality schools of higher ed including UC, Miami, others.
 
To Mtown's previous point on the inability of the younger council members to lack the experience to talk to C suite executives, while the "4" horsemen can, I read that with humor. What any business would want to hear is exactly what they hear in Mason, Libert Township, West Chester, and other cities,there are no taxes. Look at Springboro- tax rate of 1.5%. Any of the 4 could not communicate a message any better than the 3 you take shots at (who cares if  anyone completed a degree and practices law---the % of law students whom drop out after a semester is higher than grad school, dental, vet, or medical school Mtown is a nonsensical point), is of no relevance.
 
Businesses want to hear 1) What type of school ranking do you have 2) how are you helping me and my business: ergo---tax incentives. That is not spoken effectively by the city nor the council,and inexperience has no bearing on that message.
 
While Cinci State will have no impact upon adding jobs in Middletown,other than the profs (they also do have a very fine paralegal program), it does help property owners, because although the citynever effectively markets the city as a good place for residents, the fact will remain- Middletown offers great post high school educational value in MUM, Cinci State when it ramps up, and other ancillary institutions. Cinci State will cannabolize some of the programs at Greentree and MUM in health, but it still will have no adverse impact upon the numbers of teaching positions. And, the residents gain by telling a buyer, in a 5 minute drive, their kids have access to a nice prep program at MUM to move on to Oxford, or elsewhere,and the same at Cinci State.      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 10:08am
So--maybe it is time to "donate" pretty much the entire area formerly known as downtown, including all properties currently owned by the Tatcher, Finkleman and Valen/Tekakis groups. They have failed to make real improvements or perform day-to-day maintence and houskeeping, and have brought in no real businesses, and nothing planned outside of holding on until the municipality sweeps in to bail them out of their holdings.
 
Since the PAC building required a heavily subsidized giveaway(will it really be open for a sale in Nov.?), the Manchester, former Senior Center, and former CG & E buildings are empty and non-functional at this time, there is no way that the city should pay a premium price for them. Minimum bids at best, or they should be donated by the current owners to relieve their liabilities.
 
If the city over-pays for these empty and dated structures, how are they going to rationalize coming to the voters when the financial train wreck happens in 2 years? How will the city afford public safety and infrastructure maintenence? How about collecting the "un-encumbered funds" and "other" category in the budgets of every dept. within the city? If the $$ is not line-itemed, then it doesn't belong in their budgets.
 
jmo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 11:15am

Mason does have an income tax rate of 1%. 

West Chester, Liberty and Deerfield Townships are not allowed to have an income tax because they are townships.  One of the strongest arguments against West Chester becoming a city is the income tax argument.

Regardless, both SJ and accarlo make excellent points.

1.)    Old Senior Building: I believe the city owns it.  So no cost there to the city.  Attractiveness of this building to CSC is that it has a commercial kitchen for a culinary program

2.)    Manchester Inn: It’s been stated here several times that the owners received a loan from the city several years ago, and this loan has not been repaid.  Perhaps that will be used as a negotiation tool by the city.  The obstacle here: I believe there are three partners: Levy Estate, Thatcher Estate and Bill Akers.  Not sure if Levy Estate disposed of its share or not.  Attractiveness of this building to CSC is that it can provide hands-on experience to students in both the culinary and hospitality programs.  Plus for the city in that a downtown hotel and banquet center remain open

3.)    Cingery:  This one is a bit more complicated.  Originally, this building was purchased by both Perry Thatcher and Peggy Blakely under the guise of Venture 3 Enterprises.  Not such of both parties are still involved.  I’ve heard the Blakely’s have fallen on hard financial times.  Casper Law occupies floors four and five.  Middletown Journal and additional law office(s) are at street level.  Would these be relocated?

More long-term thinking: What kind of student housing might this project bring.  One of the downfall’s of MUM is that there isn’t any student housing.  Which is typically the case of a branch of MUM’s size especially when the main campus is so close.  Plus there are plenty of apartments in close proximity.

But could a downtown campus support student housing?  The city has acquired the old Orman building on  Verity.  Ideally, they would like to preserve part or whole and find a redevelopment partner to build out loft-style units.   Could a downtown campus build a stronger case for redevelopment? 

Lots of good questions here. 

Oh, and SJ - get ready to open that gourmet grocery store downtown to support the cuilnary school and tis students Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 12:05pm
The city better not pay more than $5 for the Manchester.  I've heard the principals would give it away for $1 if they could.  Let's see them step up to the plate and do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 1:04pm
Tax Summary for Cinergy.  Looks like payments are behind for 2010:
 
Current Year Real Estate Taxes
TAX TYPE Prior Year First Half Tax Second Half Tax Total
Real Estate 11,147.04 6,367.53 7,004.28 24,518.85
Special Assessments 781.32 428.92 471.82 1,682.06
Tot Payments -11,928.36 0.00 0.00 -11,928.36
Total: 0.00 6,796.45 7,476.10 14,272.55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mtown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 6:57pm
Vivian
All you do is spew negativity. What is your problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 8:03pm
acclaro, while I agree this is an optimistic development, I do wonder if this really improves the real estate market.  You mention that people might move here for the educational opportunities.  Really?  Most people are OK with commuting 25-45 minutes to college, so would anyone really move here because of Cinti State?  I don't know if MUM has caused anyone to actually move here even though certainly MUM is an asset to the community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 8:35pm
Bill, I was attempting to put as + spin on this as possible. Any gain from MUM and Cinci State, Greentree, et al, is negated (-) by Middletown's poor school system. I do not think this will create a + impact on job numbers, but it does fill the real estate void downtown. The additional - is of course, most who may attend Cinci State will not have jobs awaiting in Middletown, but will move elsewhere.
 
If the city doesn't buy these. its a gift, and at least gives the home owner something + in Middletown to attach to existing property, but you are correct: the + on higher education resources ergo MUM and Cinci State, is a net sum gain of probably above 0, associated with the reputation of the school system.
 
But, with gas hovering around $3.00/gal, these assets are still attractive to a buyer when marketed appropriately. The city will not do that, but a seller can. And, it does give those downtown a chnace if they wish, to get an education and lift themselves out of the situation they may be in economically.  
 
I did not say it will improve property values, just help the seller have an extra carrot to work with to sell property, but it does nothing to elevate property values (and won't). Just my opinion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squeemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 10:15pm
Cincinnati State Technical & Community College is a commuter school. There won't be student housing. The other urban community college campus in the area is Sinclair CC in Dayton - again no housing and on a much larger scale.

Sinclair offers a technical curricula as does the Clifton campus of CST&CC. Hospitality & culinary curricula are a good start but I'd like to see more offerings especially in areas where MUM falls short: engineering and industrial technology. Service industries are fine but we need more skilled technical people.

The boost to business can come from meeting student needs - gas, food and if I remember, coffee as they won't always want to eat or hang out where they go to school.

I speak as an alumnus of, what was then called, Cincinnati Technical College.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 10:46pm
acclaro - Middeltown can't compete against West Chester not only because of taxes but location . Everything around West Chester area has excellent accessibility easily seen from the expressway (for most business). You put anything in our downtown area and it's going to be hard to find for an out-of-towner. Most people think Middeltown sits right off the exit of 75 so then they get a big surprise when they find out they are miles from the downtown area.
 
I'd be curious to know the percentage of students going to Miami here that are out-of-towner's. I can't see to many people coming here for a culinary school. Now put it out by the interstate and it would probably thrive. People want convenience and driving from the interstate to downtown is not convenient. Same with the PAC it will not be convenient for people to make the drive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by squeemy squeemy wrote:

Cincinnati State Technical & Community College is a commuter school. There won't be student housing. The other urban community college campus in the area is Sinclair CC in Dayton - again no housing and on a much larger scale.Sinclair offers a technical curricula as does the Clifton campus of CST&CC. Hospitality & culinary curricula are a good start but I'd like to see more offerings especially in areas where MUM falls short: engineering and industrial technology. Service industries are fine but we need more skilled technical people.The boost to business can come from meeting student needs - gas, food and if I remember, coffee as they won't always want to eat or hang out where they go to school.I speak as an alumnus of, what was then called, Cincinnati Technical College.


I wasn't suggesting student housing owned by the college, but housing catering to students per se in the private sector.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 27 2010 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:


I'd be curious to know the percentage of students going to Miami here that are out-of-towner's. I can't see to many people coming here for a culinary school. Now put it out by the interstate and it would probably thrive. People want convenience and driving from the interstate to downtown is not convenient. Same with the PAC it will not be convenient for people to make the drive.


Yet isn't that the case for Miami Hamilton, which is several miles from the Interstate yet has a high enrollment than MUM?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct 28 2010 at 7:09am
No negatives here Mtown. This appears to be a good thing for the downtown area initially. Questions: The article says that Cincinnati State will lease the buildings after the city purchases them, they are renovated and turned over to the college. If that is the case, the city is still in the real estate business as the owners, they still haven't passed the buildings on to a permanent owner and they will be liable for the taxes and general upkeep on the buildings in the future, won't they? Or, will the college be responsible for the taxes (accounted for in the lease) and any further building upkeep? Who will be paying the insurance premiums for these buildings if the college is just leasing? What will this mean for the taxpayer down the road? How much will we be paying for this transaction later? Is there a minimum time that the college is to occupy these sites? What happens if this doesn't work out in the next 3 years and the college decides to vacate the premises? Same questions go for Verdin's art building. The city, in their negotiations, needs to get some hint as to the commitment on deals like this. Otherwise, there is no long-term stability to these programs.
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