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AK Steel Blast Furnace Could be New Green Energy

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    Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 11:53am
AK Steel of Middletown wants to build a $310 million power plant that would use the foul gases from its blast furnace as a fuel rather than a waste gas that it must by law now flare.

Ohio lawmakers are considering a measure that would call blast furnaces a source of green energy and instantly pit steel makers against wind farm developers.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/blast_furnace_waste_gas_could.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 3:14pm
Interesting news.  Funny how the local news did not report this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 409 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 6:14pm
This project was actually initiated around June of 2010.
The blast furnace gas was previously burned in the boilers at AK's #2 Boiler House next to the blast furnace to generate steam. This steam was generated at approximately 400 psi and superheated to about 750 degrees to run the blast furnace turboblowers, auxillaries, and process steam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 9:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 22 2012 at 9:40pm
This does sound familiar now.  My apologies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viper771 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 24 2012 at 3:37am
They just now thought of this???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 8:25am
This is old Technology and has been used in Europe for many years.  The Blast Gas has a low BTW value (about 125btw/cu ft in AK's situation) but is used, with the supplemental Natural Gas, to fire the Boiler house boilers to make steam to generate, via Turbines, the "Blast" part of the blast Furnace. The Blast furnace gas also is burnt in the Stoves at the BF to heat the blast air to 2000 degrees before it enters the furnace. The Blast gas alone will not get the stoves hot enough in the time allowed to reach 2000 degrees so natural gas is added here also.

The process being discussed here is one where the blast air is preheated, off site, with the burning of the  excess Blast gas that is now being burnt off at the the flare stack, where more time is available and then sent to the furnace complex where it is heated again to the 2000 degree level needed for current operation parameters. This will save Natural gas and reduce the Carbon footprint of the Blast furnace.

Now the part you Obamy haters won't like. This has not been done before because it was not economically feasible. It only is now because part of the money comes from the "green" portion of the stimulus so many of you bitched about and said didn't work.

I hope none of you bamy haters run to get your cut of this project. LOL.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 11:04am
So how is it cost effective if we have to borrow money from china to subsidize it (stimulus funds) I must have missed something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squeemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 1:07pm
what's interesting to me is that the Cleveland link that JH posted to start this thread (written by a Plain Dealer reporter) has a lot of commentary - none on the Middletown Journal page from an article written by Tom Gnau.

it's also interesting that this thread hasn't touched much on the controversy: should AK-Air Products proposal be regarded as Alternative or Renewable energy?

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/bill-would-update-definition-of-renewable-energy-for-steelmaker-1332753.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ground swat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 10 2012 at 6:32pm
Wasn't Air Products looking at getting involved or was that something else?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 11 2012 at 2:52pm
Bo, you are a typical Neo-con knothead.

It was not cost effective for AK, that is why AK never did it. As far as borrowing money from China, I agree with you. Of course it is just as stupid to borrow money from China to give tax cuts to millionaires also, but somehow idiots like Romney don't see that part.

Air Products is involved because they have been contracted to run the Facility. It will also displace the #2 Boiler house at AK for purposes of providing cold Blast air to the Blast furnace.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but i think IDIOTS, on both sides of the political spectrum, are going to be our down fall. My own sister has become so brain washed by Rushbo and others that someone could start a rumor that Obama was signing an Executive order outlawing calling Christmas anything but the Winter Solstice Celebration, and she would believe it. I love her, but she has turned into an idiot just like MANY on this site. I am a conservative, i just have not went over the deep end like most  neo cons have.

  Salem Mass had a general insanity invade the Community centuries ago and we  have a similar situation now, occupied by extreme idiots on both sides.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 11 2012 at 3:37pm

Neo-con? I wont even bother to respond to that.I only call them as I see them sorry that you agree with presidents that borrow money like a drunken sailor that stole donald trumps American express.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 11 2012 at 5:44pm
Once again, you go with emotion rather than fact. I said I agreed with you about borrowing from China.

So, now explain your comment here.. You won't as you can not. you are like so many others,having been fired up by Elmer Gantry types and you can only respond with emotion without even thinking thru whatever position you are espousing.

As far as you being a neo con...you sure talk the neo con nonsense just like you were one.

I am just sick to death of all the stupidity in our political system today. If you would clear your head long enough to think, you might see that this kind of BS can lead to some really bad things, given historical precedent. I mean things FAR worse than borrowing too much money. Of course that would require logic on your part and your neo con devotion has probably rendered that part of your brain useless by now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 2:24am
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Once again, you go with emotion rather than fact. I said I agreed with you about borrowing from China.

So, now explain your comment here.. You won't as you can not. you are like so many others,having been fired up by Elmer Gantry types and you can only respond with emotion without even thinking thru whatever position you are espousing.

As far as you being a neo con...you sure talk the neo con nonsense just like you were one.

I am just sick to death of all the stupidity in our political system today. If you would clear your head long enough to think, you might see that this kind of BS can lead to some really bad things, given historical precedent. I mean things FAR worse than borrowing too much money. Of course that would require logic on your part and your neo con devotion has probably rendered that part of your brain useless by now.
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 2:24am
Originally posted by Bocephus Bocephus wrote:

Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Once again, you go with emotion rather than fact. I said I agreed with you about borrowing from China.

So, now explain your comment here.. You won't as you can not. you are like so many others,having been fired up by Elmer Gantry types and you can only respond with emotion without even thinking thru whatever position you are espousing.

As far as you being a neo con...you sure talk the neo con nonsense just like you were one.

I am just sick to death of all the stupidity in our political system today. If you would clear your head long enough to think, you might see that this kind of BS can lead to some really bad things, given historical precedent. I mean things FAR worse than borrowing too much money. Of course that would require logic on your part and your neo con devotion has probably rendered that part of your brain useless by now.
 
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
Neo lemonheads
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 1:29pm
Humor is an emotion, right?        You made my point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

Humor is an emotion, right?        You made my point
Shirley, you jest. LOL LOL LOL
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 4:04pm
I hear Ya mike. I should have known better than to post on here. I just had personal knowledge of the project in question and offered to share it. My mistake was in not adding some anti O'Bama bias. Without that bias, it is not considered legitimate info on this site.

You and Paccy, and Bo, and others on here are like Play Ground bullies. You stick together and spout ur nonsense. That is, sadly, where internet  forums have went. Basically they are now nothing more than sites pandering to the views of the site owner. The only worth while discussion any more is when someone like me rocks the boat of all you like minded "thinkers".

You blow all your garbage and criticism without offering a single decent opposing idea. You bring up things, maybe it makes sense to you, but generally they are shallow thoughts completely unworkable in a modern society. Section 8 is a perfect example. I don't like it either, but without it we wouldn't have 3000 empty house, we would have 4000 empty ones.


Any way, go ahead make your childish jokes. The real people of the World will keep trying to solve the problems of the World. When we are done, you all can post on here how it would have worked better your way.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

I hear Ya mike. I should have known better than to post on here. I just had personal knowledge of the project in question and offered to share it. My mistake was in not adding some anti O'Bama bias. Without that bias, it is not considered legitimate info on this site.

You and Paccy, and Bo, and others on here are like Play Ground bullies. You stick together and spout ur nonsense. That is, sadly, where internet  forums have went. Basically they are now nothing more than sites pandering to the views of the site owner. The only worth while discussion any more is when someone like me rocks the boat of all you like minded "thinkers".

You blow all your garbage and criticism without offering a single decent opposing idea. You bring up things, maybe it makes sense to you, but generally they are shallow thoughts completely unworkable in a modern society. Section 8 is a perfect example. I don't like it either, but without it we wouldn't have 3000 empty house, we would have 4000 empty ones.


Any way, go ahead make your childish jokes. The real people of the World will keep trying to solve the problems of the World. When we are done, you all can post on here how it would have worked better your way.




No, Irisner, once again you’ve gotten it wrong.

I offered no comments, nor took any position, on the “personal knowledge of the project in question and offered to share”.  I neither “bullied” anyone nor did I “stick together” with anyone.  Nor did I “pander to the views of the owner of the site”, nor did I mention one single word either in favor of or against our present president.  All of that is abundantly clear to anyone who can read the thread up to this point.  (At least it should be...I had made no posts at all up until my one short attempt at humor.)

I merely responded to one direct question in your comments on this PUBLIC forum, “Humor is an emotion, right?” I tried to do so in a humorous fashion, but apparently that was lost on you.  I feel badly for you about that…I truly do.

I believe that humor is a quality, or the ability to perceive, enjoy, or express what is amusing, comical, incongruous, or absurd.  I suggest that you lighten up a bit and try to enjoy what short bit of time we mere mortals have left on this mud-covered ball of iron.  I am sorry if I have offended you by not having been more surly.

Oh…and I promise never again to call you “Shirley”!!! LOL LOL LOL

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2012 at 7:50pm
B.S.!, Mike.......you are one of the "Panderers" here. Please don't feel bad for me. I feel very superior to you, to be honest.

 I am "cursed" (in our society, anyway) with awareness. A quality far too rare in American Culture today. Sadly, you will not have a clue of what I speak until it is too late. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2012 at 3:11am
Originally posted by lrisner lrisner wrote:

B.S.!, Mike.......you are one of the "Panderers" here. Please don't feel bad for me. I feel very superior to you, to be honest.

 I am "cursed" (in our society, anyway) with awareness. A quality far too rare in American Culture today. Sadly, you will not have a clue of what I speak until it is too late. 

Oh, Irisner, you are so great!!!  I apologize for quoting your actual words and responding to them point-by-point.  I should have known that questioning someone of your high “awareness” and “superiority” was folly.  Please excuse me for not having “a clue of what I [you] speak”, but I notice that you were not able to actually cite even a single actual quote of mine to back up the things of which you accuse me.

(If expressing gratitude to the purveyors of this forum for making available the single local website of which I am aware, that commoners are permitted to express their opinions without being censored is “pandering”, then I happily plead “guilty”!!!  Aside from that I’d say that your “awareness” is convoluted, and is, indeed, a “curse”.)

Regardless of the forgoing, might I remind you that you are perfectly free to simply ignore my posts if they cause you such consternation, and turn your valuable time and superior intellect toward the musings of other liberal thinkers with whom you seem to be more in agreement?   To use your very own words, if you “should have known better than to post on here”, and if it troubles you so, then don’t.  That seems to be quite a simple solution.

I am sincerely sorry that I have seemed to trouble you so.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2012 at 3:29am

"Every man I meet is in some way my superior, and in that, I learn from him." … R. W. Emerson 

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2012 at 7:14am
Irisner, your comment including "others" opens the door for comment.

Irisner..."You and Paccy, and Bo, and others on here are like Play Ground bullies. You stick together and spout ur nonsense"

Hey, you forgot me bud. I'm one of the biggest play ground bullies here. Just ask the teacher named sickofthebull. Why, I've had just as many arguments on this site as anyone.


Irisner..."The only worth while discussion any more is when someone like me rocks the boat of all you like minded "thinkers".

Yep, "like-minded thinkers".....as in "how do we turn this town around because we give a crap about it and want it to change for the better". As in, "We dislike what they are doing to the town and the direction it is going and want it to change" In those respects, we are all "like-minded" I see nothing wrong with that. Why would you?


Irisner..."The real people of the World will keep trying to solve the problems of the World. When we are done, you all can post on here how it would have worked better your way".

You flatter yourself by your inclusion to the "real people of the World" We are all in the same boat. We just have a different perspective of what we are seeing and how to deal with it.

"Problems of the world?" Hell, we're still trying to work on the problems of this town. Forget the world right now. Actually, most of the ideas and "how it would have worked better our way" have been supported by actual facts of what is happening currently, followed by suggestions on corrections. Posts by folks on this forum have been rooted in logic and common sense, something the city leaders severely lack.

Mike, I think I have found someone who is as bitter, antagonistic and as argumentative as I am.











Oh, Irisner, not all people on this forum are anti-Obama. Our family, registered Dems, voted for him last election. However, his stance on helping illegals gain rights, giving minorities all his focus while ignoring the majority, the bailouts with no paybacks, and his pandering to greedy unions are some of the reasons we will not be continuing our support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 17 2012 at 9:21pm
Thank you all for responding. If I provoked some emotion from you, I have done something. All the "sameness" on sites like this are useless. One can get all that he/she needs in any blue Collar Bar were they solve the World's problems on a daily basis.

I am sorry if you were offended by the :"Superior" comment. However, time has taught me that it is true. I was tested as a Genius in the 4th grade after all.....LOL.

In all seriousness, my middle of the road positions, while most of the Country is polarized to the extreme, should show that my thoughts are more main stream than most of you. It seems that FOX News and MSNBC has gained control of the average American's mind.

Most of what you hear on TV is wrong, regardless of what network you watch. I watch them all, then believe a composite of what I hear. Maybe some of you should try that.

Additionally, I am a REAL conservative. It amazes me how LIBERAL some conservative can be if his/her Super Rich buddies are going to have a big payday out of it. That is not conservatism, that is plain Greed.


I bet most of you would be surprised that I was a promoter of Kemp\Roth. At that point in history, Federal Income Taxes needed to be cut. To cut those same Taxes today is pure stupidity, yet the so called conservatives promote it all the time. It is no longer about sensible Tax Policy, it is now about getting all they (the greedy) can get while the masses are believing the BS .

So laugh and boast all you want....it may make you feel better, but it won't do sh*t to solve our problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 18 2012 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

"Every man I meet is in some way my superior, and in that, I learn from him." … R. W. Emerson 

On the other hand, neither I nor Mr. Emerson have ever actually met Irisner.

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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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