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Friday, May 3, 2024 |
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Thank You, Josh & A.J. |
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Nelson R. Self 
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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 Topic: Thank You, Josh & A.J.Posted: Jan 19 2010 at 11:50pm |
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Thanks for raising questions about the increased occurence of "Emergency Legislation" that we've witnessed throughout 2009 and continues into 2010.
May God bless you both for expressing the courage of your convictions.
You're certain to be occasionally "pressured" by some veteran City Council members to follow the status quo.
Also, a review of City Council agendas covering the past few years DOES NOT show a decrease in "Emergency Legislation" items as one misinformed City Council member claimed during their praising of a certain senior City staff member.
Remember, local government always works best when average citizens of a community have a legitimate voice in all matters involving their community.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 11:49am |
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I second!
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 2:33pm |
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A major congratulations to AJ & Josh for standing their ground last night !!
Keep up the good work and don't falter at all !!! Let these people see that your both immovable and you will stand up for what is right !!!!
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Nelson R. Self
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 3:00pm |
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How unfortunate that a third "most times independent thinking" member of the City Council decided to praise Miss Judy for decreasing the number of "Emergency Legislation" items?
I encourage this City Council member to review agendas plus meeting minutes covering the past few years.
They might find that last night's purely patronizing comments ARE NOT substantiated in the public record.
I call the above ........................ More Malarkey in Middletown !!
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Murdock
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Mar 24 2008 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 4:02pm |
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OMG.......please tell me that we aren't going to have two, (still wet behind the ears) councilmen govern by what they read on this blog site!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 4:24pm |
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Hey Murdock please tell us what has been so wonderful about the way the City has been governed for the last 10+ years, with back room deals and a wink and a nod.
Poor Schools
Excessive Poverty
Excessive Section 8
Infrastructure is failing
No plan whatsoever to repair infrastructure other than Pie in the sky revitalize downtown for the umpteenth time.
Poor housing stock in a majority of the City.
No Jobs
No retail or entertainment amenities for citizens
Failure to be able to maintain parks
A City Admin and Council which is unresponsive to the Citizens to say the least unless you are on welfare, Section 8 or Public Housing or one of the in Crowd.
etc., etc., etc.
Please Murdock tell us what has been so damn wonderful, that any type of change wouldn't be welcome.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 5:33pm |
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Smith and Laubaugh should stack up very well
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 7:32pm |
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No they won't govern by what is posted here because they have enough sense to see and recognize on their own what is really going on. Sure they are freshmen just as every council member has been at one time,but the difference that these two men will make is already making certain people nervous.
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VietVet
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 7:57pm |
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Murdock- "Governing" by what is on this blog would be a hell of a lot more healthy for the city than the methods used by the current group and the suggestions made on this site would serve the people better than the secret agenda that is constantly being kept from those same people. Why do you post on this site if you support the people who are viewed as having ruined this city? Why take your time to enter any dialog with us? Wouldn't your time be put to better use hanging out with your buddies down at city hall? You need not try to insult us here. You're outnumbered and overmatched.
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 9:07pm |
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boy this forum is a real paranoid bitch session. It sounds like no one is welcome on here unless they are totally paranoid, think there are all sort of "backroom deals", tons of cash floating around, and that 99.99% of all city leaders, employees, and school board members are incompetent. With the possible exception of a few backroom deals the rest is bunk.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 9:38pm |
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Once you get below the "Director" level, most of the city emloyees are probably not incompetent!
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randy
MUSA Official 
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 11:05pm |
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Bill, is it being paranoid if they are really after you?
I welcome everyone to this site, and all opinions can be spoken here. There are things going on in that city building that do not seem right or kosher. You dont need this site to know that. Is this site used as a Bitch session..? Sure is, but thats what is great about a free speech site. If you want censored speech there is a site for you, its called the Middletown Journal. I like the fact that people can come here, and within the rules say what ever they want. We have all kinds here, from business owners to stay at home moms. Are you saying all these people are wrong in thinking things need to change?
You say "With the possible exception of a few backroom deals the rest is bunk." Is this ok with you? There should be no back room deals, and if you admit that there are a few going on, how can you say the rest is bunk? If our leaders are willing to make back room deals (which are illegal) how can anyone say that we should trust them?
I do welcome you here, I love this site and have worked very hard to bring the people with answers here to talk to us, so I hope you stick around and voice your opinion. If it was up to some people in this town this site would be shut down, think I am making that up... think again. I have received more than one phone call from respected people in town asking me to shut down MiddletownUSA or censor it and FORCE (that was their word) people to post under their real name.
It's the Vet's, Presta's, Hermes and all the others that come here and seek the answers to questions that need to be asked that make this site what it is, and why I will always stand back to back with all MiddletownUSA poster, even when I dont agree with their opinion.
This is a place for the people Bill, all of us including you...dont forget that.
Randy
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Posted: Jan 20 2010 at 11:48pm |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 6:04am |
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Some of us post here regularly, so by your post, I take it that we are the ones who are "welcome" here. You've only been a member for a couple of months, so perhaps you haven't noticed that we "paranoids" often correct each other, and that actual correct corrections are well received. We even debate among ourselves, as all issues aren't clearly black or white and some actually are simply matters of opinion.
If you read enough of our posts, you must come to one conclusion (I mean besides that we are usually right):
Most of us are interested in the TRUTH!! And once we find it, we accept it and embrace it, whether we like it or not.
Also, you will find that much of our thinking is based on research and facts, (unlike the "99.9%" statistic that you threw out. But that's OK, we realize that 91.76068723451% of the statistics cited on the internet are made up on the spot!) The rest of our thinking is usally based on reason and logic guided by our research and facts.
So, as Randy said, you are welcome here. In fact, most of us enjoy reasonable opposong viewpoints.
However, if you are one who is frightened by the truth, or who panics at or recoils from the truth, then perhaps this site isn't your cup of tea and you would be happier elsewhere. It's all up to you!!!
PS: Sometimes we just have FUN!!! You'll have to excuse us if we don't always share your misery--especially if it's self-inflicted or imaginary!!!
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 7:00am |
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Bill.....Bill Becker is that you?
Now Bill you state:
I take it you are referring to this posts as he mentions "back room deals".
You state, "With the possible exception of a few backroom deals the rest is bunk."
So in your Mind we don't have any of the below listed issues in this city:
Poor Schools
Excessive Poverty
Excessive Section 8
Infrastructure is failing
No plan whatsoever to repair infrastructure other than Pie in the sky revitalize downtown for the umpteenth time.
Poor housing stock in a majority of the City.
No Jobs
No retail or entertainment amenities for citizens
Failure to be able to maintain parks
A City Admin and Council which is unresponsive to the Citizens to say the least unless you are on welfare, Section 8 or Public Housing or one of the in Crowd.
etc., etc., etc.
Please tell us more, Bill. Don't just come on here like Murdock and make one line statements and flee. You and Murdock obviously feel this city is Shangrila and "Middletown has a Bright Future".
So please tell us:
Why Excessive Section 8 is so wonderful? 1 voucher for every 29 residents. I have yet to find another City with a ratio anywhere near that anywhere.
Why is excessive Poverty so wonderful?
Why are poor performing schools wonderful?
Why a lack of living wage jobs is wonderful?
Why are businesses fleeing the city, other than Second hand stores and Thrift Shops?
Why our infrastructure is crumbling and not being repaired?
Why 1920-1950's Steel Mill housing Stock is so wonderful?
Why a City Admin and Council that is so reluctant to see what they have actually created in Middletown is nothing more than a Poverty stricken City with little future currently, etc., etc., etc.
Please tell us that all of the above is Just in our imagination and not true. Unfortunately you can't. In your mind these don't exist.....I would call that delusional on your part.
Just my Humble Opinion on the matter of Course. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 7:09am |
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Bill..... please explain your rational for your opinion of us as being paranoid. We are aware of a history of "backroom deals" that have surfaced on various occasions and have evidence to support those conclusions. A recent POTENTIAL "backroom deal" , is the Schiavone appointment to this so-called "Special Projects Specialist" in the courts. Seems awfully odd on the timing, wouldn't you say. Now, we don't have proof as yet, but, in time, the facts will surface. Aren't you the least bit curious about this "timely" event for Schiavone, right after he leaves Council? Coincidence or pre-arranged?
As to "tons of cash"- the city has a program to receive "Tons of cash" from the feds for their Section 8/HUD programs and to help remove the "blighted" structures around town. This is revenue for the city in lieu of the city gaining revenue through job creation/company acquisitions and the corporate and payroll taxes that could be collected from these entities. The town has chosen to gather revenue through government handouts by volunteering to accept low-income/welfare programs that no other town wants rather than to make an attempt to collect revenue like most "normal" towns do. We are paying a high price with this thinking and the town is worse off because of it. This is not being paranoid, Bill, this is stating a fact of what is actually happening in town. 99.99% of all city leaders/employees/school board members are incompetent..... Well, Bill, look at what is happening in our schools. The out-of-control discipline issues, the inability to choose a person who will actually make a difference as a superintendent, the anemic academic performance, and the strained relationship between the school board, the administration and the teachers. Review the decisions that are made at council meetings. Read what is reported in the Journal concerning the decisions made as to the direction of this city by Council, the Law Director, Gilleland, Kohler, Adkins and others. Read about the "Gateway" and VA Clinic decisions made by Kohler and his Planning Committee. Notice how new businesses are not exactly flocking to our doors to set up business. Notice what has happened to our town image because of the low class mentality theme they have adopted. Notice how much trouble Council has with even the simplest decisions like the parks, splash pads, Sunset Pool, Douglas Park, property citations, and more complicated ones like what to do with the downtown area, how to fix the infrastructure and streets and how to reduce the city budget. They can't seem to decide on anything with any expediency nor logic. They meet to decide not to decide..... then pass everything in the 12th hour through "Emergency legislation" with regularity. We tie all this in with incompetency....ie... the inability to reason logically to solve a problem. The city employees below Director level-they're just pawns caught up in this whole debacle. What would you call it? What do you see from them that we are not seeing? Please offer your version of the city. Perhaps we all could learn something we hadn't considered before. Thanks in advance for your reply. |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 7:40am |
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My point is not that things couldn't be handled better and certain decisions aren't questionable. And certain people probably do need to lose their job (i.e. the history of difficulty businesses have had with Kohler over the years). But blanket statements that essentially label ALL the leaders on council or the school board (many of whom are educated or otherwise qualified and who do their work for little or no pay) as corrupt and clueless are off the mark. This populist pitchfork mentality and cries of "throw the bums out" may feel good but may be off the mark. As we all (or should) know this city has many problems that originated 25-30 years ago. If our city leaders were Superman, Batman, and Wonderwoman (why hasn't there been a movie about her anyway?) I don't think they could do much to help right away. It's like trying to turn a cruiseliner around quickly. So placing all the blame on current leaders for things like corporate flight, demographic changes, and poor parenting of students is like blaming the fireman for the raging fire. Could things be handled better in some of these instances? Perhaps. And it's great that some on this site shine a light on some decisions. But I don't believe every decision our leaders make is off the mark or detrimental to the city. In some cases I think they're doing the best with what they have.
Finally, some on this site seem to revel in whether or not a particular leader has responded within 24-48 hours to their particular question or complaint. "They work for us" and "public input" are often used. Folks, these people are trying to run a city of 48k people and a school district of several thousand and you feel they should be waiting by their phone or computer to be a 24/7 customer service rep. We elected the leadership -- let them do their work, question them from time to time, and vote them in or out at the ballot box. But the nitpicking and demanding of answers for every decision they make is not realistic. For example, all the uproar about the Superintendent process.....I could care less how they found their candidates or who they hired. I just want results. After getting input for the new Super position, they can search however they want. If I don't like who you hired then I'll vote you off the board. Same goes for Council. Why they hell do we have a board or council if the public is going to want to micromanage their work all the time?
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 7:57am |
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Thanx fer yer input, Mr.Bill.
We might be more concerned and frustrated than paranoid(feel the same way?)
I would think that most would agree with yer above message(as opposed to your last insulting message).
We WANT you here, and this place IS set up for real discussion AND "to answer yer ?s".
Kohler--he works for Admin and Council. So what he does is a mirror of what they want him to do.
If they want him to use a different approach or go in a different direction, then they should direct him so.
I like the guy and appreciate his knowledge and hard work. Juzst don't like his direction at all. "They" may have tried to have him do too many things(some of which he didn't really understand).
WE can go a long way if we listen and talk to each other, in stead of talking AT each other.
This site seems to be the best and most popular discussion venue(thanx 2 our hosts!).
Welcome to this world.
Where the road goes on forever and the party never ends!
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randy
MUSA Official
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 8:07am |
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Bill, I do agree with most of what you have stated. Many things going on in this city is based on decisions past council has made. I do have one question for you, in your post you said "Finally, some on this site seem to revel in whether or not a particular leader has responded within 24-48 hours to their particular question or complaint." So what would be a proper time frame? Example: I have called one council member, Mr. Becker, no less than 20 times over the past few months never once has he returned a call.
Is that acceptable?
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 8:43am |
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Bill
I would like to hear more on this statement, specifically what decisions.
THANKS
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Nelson R. Self
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 03 2009 Status: Offline Points: 279 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 8:48am |
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You speak the truth once again, Randy!
I appreciate your efforts to bring transparent and accountable governance back to
One Donham Plaza.
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BengalBill
Outsider 
Joined: Jan 14 2010 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 9:29am |
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Randy, your example with Becker is obviously a problem. He should have responded by now. An example I'm thinking of, and I shudder to criticize him, is Mr. Presta's lengthy point-by-point critique of the hiring process for Superintendent. I commend Marcia Andrew for responding to the many points Mr. Presta made. Not saying he was wrong for the correspondence but in IMHO I think it was nitpicking to parse every word and sentence she used. I just wouldn't have done it. Again, he's free to do so but I want results and don't care what date someone's resume arrived. And before someone bashes me for that little opinion and says "we're just holding them accountable", all I'm saying is that I would rather just give some input then let them do their job and see how it turns out.
Pacman, I agree with the overall focus with regard to the east end (which is contrary to some opinions in the second ward), the visible attempts to get involved with the train station issue, the pools (close down Douglass), and the demolition of old structures and creation of more green space. I readily admit I am not as tuned into how these decisions are made and if council should credit for any of it. I just don't have the time to be as informed as I should be. I do have a problem with the failure to work on a more rapid reduction in the Sec. 8 housing. And I think there seems to be a "vision problem" -- there doesn't seem to be enough movers and shakers who have some vision and creativity for getting things done. An example is the rather predictable call for an arts focus in downtown --- enticing artists to come live and work there in exchange for minimal rent, etc. I was reading about these kind of initiatives for the last several years -- Hamilton was diving into it about 3-4 years ago. It always seems like M'town jumps on the bandwagon (usually too late!) and rarely LEADS with a novel or clever approach to a problem.
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Jan 21 2010 at 9:35am |
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Previous post was mine. Not sure how I selected "BengalBill" |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Jan 24 2010 at 8:55am |
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Well, I’ve turned this over in my mind for several days before replying. You see, I’m a very sensitive guy (when guys like Alan Alda or Phil Donohue need advice regarding sensitivity, they nearly always call me) and my feelings were hurt by your statement above. Mr. Bill, why in the world would you “shudder to criticize” me??? Have I ever threatened anyone here??? No!!! Am I physically imposing??? NO!!! In fact, I am an old, half-crippled, “Teddy bear” type--loved by all who know me. I have no history of unprovoked violence, and have killed fewer innocent people than Ted Kennedy. I try to always treat other folks as they treat me. I am generous to widows and orphans, and always offer my seat to ladies, whether they are pregnant or not. I seldom refuse to offer a gentleman a drink. When I was a younger, healthier man, I would frequently even give my opponents the benefit of the shade. Regardless, if I have done anything (other than to seek the truth) that offends you or frightens you, I do apologize. |
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Bill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Posted: Jan 24 2010 at 6:30pm |
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Mike, I only shuddered at your superior intellect and command of facts. I thought you might gun me down with data because you seem to be very knowledgable about all matters pertaining to city and the MCSB.
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