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Unspecified Sutphin Street Project Problems?? |
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angelababy
MUSA Resident Joined: Aug 04 2010 Status: Offline Points: 103 |
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Posted: Oct 18 2010 at 2:52am |
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No visits to any of the affected businesses in any of these areas, just
like during the extended Yankee Rd.shutdown after the disaster caused by
Air Products and AK(oddly both responsible parties were allowed access
top the closed road, as were SCHOOL BUSES). No letters, no phonecalls,
no ED updates or newspaper releases clarifying anything.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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As you can see from my previous post, I can speak "Poetic" (as well as "Pompous", "Dignified", and "Obnoxious" ).
I could try to take a shot at translating into the colloquial again, but I don't want to catch h*ll.
Besides, It's Friday night, and that's always reserved for my wife !!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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The peanut sat on the railroad track,
It's heart was all a-flutter.
Then along came the Triple C,
TOOT!!! TOOT!!! ... Peanut butter!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Just like with a New Year's Resolution, the fixative, IMO, is "out with the old and in with the new". We have a start with Laubach instead of Marconi, Smith instead of what's her name-?, and, hopefully, the addition of Ms. Scott-Jones, who, most of the time, gives us the impression that she is on the right track in the correct direction. JMO
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Wow Vet--pretty tall mission there.
If Dead Man is implying that I am a "good person" then much appreciated,however as most know, I am not that "good".
I am better as a loner than as a leader, and have never claimed to be any type of role model.
Still-someone is going to have to stand up to the dark side.
We need unification instead of division.
jmo
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Spider, I think the Deadman is suggesting you lead us in saving the town from the bad people, Pied Piper style, before it's too late.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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OK Dead Man--interesting.
Why me?
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Dead man walkin'
MUSA Resident Joined: May 06 2010 Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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It seems you’ve yet to understand, the lack of clock when death’s at hand.
Whether late night mine or early yours,
what makes the difference of our hours? What some call “rant,” others see as prose,
what some smell sweet, fouls others’ nose. The purpose in twilight of life,
‘tis not for fame nor to cause strife. So judge not the meter, nor the rhyme,
but save the city, while still there’s time! Attack the blackguards, not the good,
oh mighty Spider, THAT you should. Or suffer ye as now I must,
and watch as our town turns to dust, while concrete crumbles and buildings rust, while funds are stolen and leaders lie… and YOU can do no more than die! So stay the course, if you believe.
Sway back and forth, instead of lead. Take no stand at any cost! DAMN US! We wait ’til all is lost!
We talk and talk while good men leave. When I am gone none be bereaved.
Nor at your time will any grieve. Too late for me, I cannot act,
December’s here, and that’s a fact. Do you have time to switch the track? I cannot say, don’t know your fate,
I can’t predict your reaper’s date, I beg you, sir, please do not wait. With one last fervent clarion call,
I beg you, urge you, one and all, this one last late night rant to state: Please do not meet with my same fate,
When heading for that Pearly Gate.
Do not face Him while you’re a’crawl,
Approach Him standing proud and tall, Tell Him that you gave your all. Rally the troops ‘fore town’s death knell,
let not them fall ‘neath evil’s spell. Forsake that duty and I foretell: We’ll meet next at the gates of hell. |
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"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil" (Psalm 23)
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rngrmed
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 06 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 309 |
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I don't own a business in this town or any other for that matter. But as SpiderJohn said earlier, we have some sort of stake in this project and every other project that Council and the administration takes on. Whether we are homeowners, renters, buisness owners, employees or parents we have a stake. We need to drive on these roads to get to and from work, take our children to and from school or other activities. We use these roads to get to and from the grocery stores or other errands. Our loved ones live on these streets and our ability to visit them or them visiting us is affected.
Whenever council spends money on a project means another project does without. Maybe the neglected project is one we are passionate about,. Either way, we all have a stake and should care.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Just watched the new Supthin St.business owner make a polite, compassioned plea for an accurate update on the construction project, while expressing his dismay at the extended shutdown of work and the daily promises made at last week's extra Council session.
If Councilmembers and the city manager honestly don't know the facts behind the work stoppage
delay, then they probably should simply sit and remain silent. Or try something different by telling the truth.
jmo
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Mike--my last comment related to the city actually bringing you in for an opinion on anything.
Respectfully--we know that won't be happening, even when you have the expertise(and I know you to be a very knowledgeable person in many areas).
Bottom line--no work has been done on Sutphin for at least two weeks now, despite promises from en\gineering and Council. That is my point--all about un-necessary delays, and nothing about construction technique. I know this street--I have worked and lived on or around it for over 50 years. Do you REALLY expect this project to finished by the start of the school year and without further expense?
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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So much to be addressed!!! First, to Mr. Walkin’: To paraphrase Brutus in Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar”: I am not sure If I come to praise you or to bury you. While I do agree with some of what you say, I neither need you to speak for me, nor to defend me, and I especially do not need you to act as my conscience. I appreciate your confidence in me, and assure you that I have answered with the best that is in me and will continue to try to do so. I will add that one’s head does get quite painful from constant beating against the same wall. If you were aware of all the circumstances, I feel sure that you would understand the need to take an occasional break. Out of compassion for the situation for the circumstances I perceive your chosen username to imply, I will say no more. ************************* Now, on to Spiderjohn, who I perceive as having chosen to make some of this personal!!! Sir, I took no side, and in fact made no comment whatsoever on the Sutphin Street matter until my post of 01 Jul 2010 at 6:47pm. That post was completely farcical, and I clearly (at least I thought it was “clear”) pointed out my intent of humor by preceding my “translation” with the comment:
I apologize for thinking that people like you would NOT realize that “Pompus, Dignified, and Obnoxious” were NOT three actual foreign languages that required translation into a local dialect of English. As you might say: “My bad!” Now, if you felt that my attempt at humor fell short and you wanted to give me a “groan” or some similar pan, of course I would not have minded, and would probably have joked about your taste in humor in return. But no, YOU replied thusly:
Well, I am always happy to reply condescendingly WHEN SOMEONE DESERVES IT, so I did in my reply to THAT!!!
Apparently, that wasn’t condescending enough, for you didn’t seem to “get it”. You replied at 02 Jul 2010 at 7:56am thusly:
Now, I don’t know exactly what in my short statements prompted this rambling, incoherent response, and I thought about replying, but decided to spare you further embarrassment. After all, you did state that you “ have no experience whatsover with road/curbing construction” and then went on to prove it with some of your further ramblings. I went on to have a wonderful evening with my wife and some friends, and let the subject drop. You, however, decided to make it personal AGAIN it with YOUR response to Mr. Walkin:
Spiderjohn, I don’t know how much you think you know about me, and I don’t know from whom you get your information or how much they think they know about me, but here’s a clue or two or a few: If they think I’m inexperienced on “HUGE” (and I use "HUGE" sarcastically) jobs like the ones the city gets involved in here in Middletown, then here’s your sign à STUPID! If they think that I know nothing about the theory and practice of the design and placing of concrete slabs and structures, or about paving in general then here’s your sign à STUPID! If they think that I have just been some low-level peon on a few little construction projects here and there, then here’s your sign à STUPID! If YOU think that you have discussed my qualifications with ANY other Middletown resident who has negotiated a project agreement with the General Presidents’ Committee of the AFL-CIO Building and Trades Department, then here’s your sign à STUPID! Now, I try to be a humble man, and the forgoing may sound brazen. For that I apologize to everyone else!!! However, the record is the record, and it does get a little tiresome constantly hearing the record distorted by those who are ignorant of the facts. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Sorrr if I confused the two screen names, Mr.Self.
I will re-direct my approach accordingly.
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High Speed Rail??
MUSA Immigrant Joined: May 28 2010 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Mr. Dillman -
High Speed Rail?? is me (Nelson Self). I have no clue who Dead Man Walkin' might be. If you check with Randy he can probably confirm this.
I deeply regret your comments about me. If it makes you feel better to speak about my issues, so be it. At least I continue to seek professional help and am not ashamed to say so. Better get your facts right before you blind side someone else.
Before praising Mr. Adkins further, it might be interesting if he informed us citizens how the $2.144 Million in HUD Neighborhood Stabilization Program - Round One funds have/are really being spent. In my heart I know that I've provided a unique insight into some of the things that happened at City Hall. If the information I've shared is not useful , I feel truly sad for the honest, tax-paying citizens of Middletown.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Whatever, Dead Man.
Sure--I care mostly about my situation.
I believe that I have mentioned the University/Shafor situation repreatedly here and in my conversations with engineering,admin and Council. Same with the other University water mane break and the I75/122 boondoggle.
BTW--no work has been done on Supthin since the meeting last Tuesday despite the promises. Hopefully it will resume today.
So--I concern myself with screwed up messes that effect me.
Big surprise--isn't that what I should be doing?
As for expecting "everyone to take my side", I pretty much play my own game here.
As for Presta being consulted on the road projects--are you serious?
You have a strange way of thinking--trying to manipulate others to speak up for what you see as important also. As always, if you have issues, you had better deal with them yourself.
Hey--great to have interesting points of view here.
Room for one more?
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Hmmmmmm, seems to me one could ask you the very same question, Mr. 21 Posts aka Dead Man Walkin. You come on the scene here belittling others yet where have you been for the last 2-3 years that many of us have been warning people that change is needed in this city. You offer very little in the way of information other than to tell others what they should be doing or should have done.
Do you know these people on here personally? I know many of them and I talk to some of them regularly and they show far more concern for everyone in this city then you do with your rants and demands. Just because you may be a 'Dead Man Walkin' doesn't give you any special privileges to come here and give orders and make demands of people.
Have a nice day.
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Dead man walkin'
MUSA Resident Joined: May 06 2010 Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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Presta should've had a look at this and given his professional opinion. He owes the town that much. Instead, all he did was go for a few cheap laughs with the "I speak Pompous and Jive, etc" routine. You just dind't think it was funny when you needed someone to back your view up.
You don't seem to worked up about whose dog is/has been in the fight on other spots where the same thing happens to your commpetitors, do you? University/Marsh comes to mind.
You people don't worry about the "spinning and theatrics" unless it directly affects YOU so the city gets away with it all the time. You take their side when it suits you. I didn't here you protest the hogwash spin and theatris about the market Drive mess. Where were your tears then? Oh, not your problem was it? Old 25 in front of Guyler's and Ristaneo's and Micamanoco's? Need I go on?
But now they affect YOUR place, and YOU wonder where everyone is to take your side? Where were YOU when THEY needed support?
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"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil" (Psalm 23)
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Fine!!!
I didn't have a dog in this fight.
I haven't even run with the dogs for over 12 years now!! ( )
But if you're gonna bark at me...
I'll have more to say later.
(Friday evenings are ALWAYS reserved for my wife and I to socialize!!! )
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Bobbie
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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IMO - Would there not have been discussions of the possiblitity that this extra work might need to be done. If so- would it not have been the smart thing to add this to the bid - then if not needed we could have sent the non used stimules money back. It is always better to say you came in under budget, then to ask for more money especially when we really don't have it. Our engineers should have known this is a possibility and asked for it to be included. Is the work that was done on St Rt 122, state work or city work. Because if that is what the engineers for the city planned - it is awful. I can understand why people from other areas do not come to Middletown, the roads into town are confusing.
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Mr Presta. Accept my apology for the "quote" error. My post was not directed at you but rather, from my vantage point, an add to your post. It is understandable that you were confused.
As a matter of fact the bids are made based on what the City wants and the Specs laid out by the City Engineers. It is not up to the Contractor to decide what work needs to be done. They only look at so as to be informed about any obstacles, safety, traffic, other things that could impact their cost. As to if I had a Dog in this fight, one of the losing Bids was from the Company where my Dad was a part of Management and I still have family working there now. If personal interest were involved, I would been saying just the opposite so as to make the inference that the current Contractor did something wrong as way to Promote the The "Family" Company for future Bids. I think under the circumstances, I was fair to say the least. |
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Bobbie
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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From a business stand point there is always more then 1 bid. Did we accept the lowest bid thinking we were getting a good deal? Where the other bids higher, and were they higher because they recommended replacing what we are now having the issue about? If so then it is our management/coucil error. I.
I like the idea of bringing in someone that knows about construction work that does not have any gain from the project. To my knowledge no one on council is an expert on concrete construction. It is obvious if you drove down 122, that is completely screwed up. I f you drive down University right now you see that some of the gutter work is marked for replacement and some is not - will we have the same issue with this work as well?
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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No one is claiming corruption or evil, though incompetance, unnecessary work stoppage, affected residence/business hardship and secrecy could be applicable.
Same with the assumption that using a real proper name other than a screen name certifies some higher degree of honesty, accuracy or righteousness.
I have no experience whatsover with road/curbing construction, and respect the posts here of those with that backround. Your info minus the personality part is very helpful.
I have operated a business on Sutphin and approximate to the area for over 50 years, and lived in that area also.Sutphin is a vital connecting roadway, much more-travelled than many realize. There had been no deep roadwork in that area for as long as I can remember(I travel it multiple times every day). IMO the construction experts/planners should have probably anticipated a worst case scenerio as a realistic/likely possibility, and had a back-up plan accordingly.
The discovery and subsequent extra funding could have been planned secondarily IF those in charge and approving had taken proper time to thoroughly outline the project. To stop the work, pull all workers and equipment off the job then go through the theatrics and spinning we witnessed would not have happened. Plan B could have been implemented to the surprise of no one. The extra funding and work(already anticipated as worst case) could have gone on un-interrupted. To shut these businesses and impact the hundreds of residents for an extra 3-week minimum(over 2 weeks already) is a serious hardship.
Once again, I blame the rush and incomplete planning on un-necessary emergency legislation and an intentional lack of provided information to make an educated and proper decision.
Dog in this fight? We ALL have a stake in this project to a varying degree. It is now an on-going mess with nothing happening on dry, pleasant weather working conditions.
Bottom line--none of the posturing and egotism displayed here or by Council/Admin has put one worker back on the project yet. Does anyone really expect anything to happen before next Tuesday at the earliest?
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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You appear to be addressing this mess to me, but I have no idea from which lame portion of your brain you snatched the fragmented phrases "City Corruption" or "some other Evil", or the idea that I had any interest in your "Family" or what your "Dad might very well have done".
I can, to a 100% certainty, guarantee you that I am NOT "looking for someone to tell" me what I "want hear rather than the truth", and even if I was, that "someone" would NOT be YOU!
Now, I don't know why you seem to always want to try to pick an arguement with me, but it is getting old, and it is not even close to a "sporting" event.
If reading my posts (even when they bear so little, if any, relationship to what you seem to imagine they say) bothers you so much, please STOP reading them! (You easily can tell which are mine because MY NAME always appears just above them. When my name is NOT there, they are NOT mine!) If you cannot stop reading them, but they continue to bother you so, well, I'm sure that there is an 800 number that you can call, or some self-help web site where you can go to, to find solace, and camaraderie with others like yourself in an accepting and caring atmosphere.
Or, you can always join "jm" in attacking me in comments to Journal e-dition stories that I have not commented upon for things I have not said and for views that I may or may not hold. There are even some cartoon characters who seem to enjoy verbally "beating up" nuts such as you and "jm", and they seem better at it than I, so go there and enjoy yourself! Oh, and have a nice day!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Thank you for the compliment!!
I'm sure that only you or lrisner could've done better!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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I'll give it a shot!!!
Simply find an honest man, skilled in the necessary arts involved, but with no intentions or possibility of risk or reward from the resolution of the questions at hand…and then ask him! Use your head, man! Just find an honest man who knows all about this sort of "stuff", but doesn’t have anything to gain or lose on this deal, and who isn’t out to get involved for money, and then ask him what the deal is. /QUOTE] I already did that, but as it didn't claim City Corruption or some other Evil, it was dismissed. As to qualification, my Family has been doing such work since 1961. My Dad might very well have done the Street some of you live on right now. If that is good enough, then I think you are looking for someone to tell you what you want hear rather than the truth. |
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