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Did I miss something??? |
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Mike_Presta 
MUSA Council 
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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 Topic: Did I miss something???Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 1:10am |
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Did I miss something??? Were there some semi-secret city council meetings wherein votes were taken and ordinances passed that were not recorded, nor noted in the workbooks, nor reported in the local newspapers??? Or could my eyes have deceived me earlier this evening as I drove southbound on Breiel Boulevard approaching Central Avenue??? I saw the sign that has been there for as long as I can remember: REDUCED SPEED
35 AHEAD
Did I imagine the new sign on the same sign post that says: PHOTO ENFORCED
Does anyone else recall council authorizing this???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Chief Whatdahey
MUSA Immigrant 
Joined: Aug 23 2010 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 1:19am |
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I'm still trying to figure the genius behind changing the right lane of westbound Grand Ave appoaching S. Breiel Blvd to right turn only, rather than the logical straight OR turn right as it always was... but then again, look at the engineered ugliness on SR 122 between Towne and Union... I believe the answer to "photo enforced" has been there for awhile for the red light camera there.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 4:17am |
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Chief,
I'll take a closer look the next time I drive by that location, but I can't seem to recall the "PHOTO ENFORCED" sign being on the same signpost as the "REDUCED SPEED 35 AHEAD" sign. I could be wrong.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 6:55am |
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Camera boxes and signs still there. Thought they had always been there Mike. Intersection was deactivated a few years ago to move to a new location wasn't it? Didn't the city play "rotate the cameras to five new locations awhile back? Someone still needs to put a bag over the lenses like they did in Arizona a few years back.
 Hate those dam cameras and I haven't been ticketed. By the way, I've heard of people not paying the $100. fine and getting away with it. Is that true? Heard something about the whole thing being unconstitutional.  Too much Big Brother in our lives.
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middletownscouter
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Oct 11 2010 Location: Sunset Park Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 8:31am |
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I got one last summer for turning right on red from University onto First (thought that was still legal but I guess I didn't come to a complete stop before turning so whatever). The ticket was for $125. They charge a $25 late fee if you don't pay it within some small amount of time (30 days maybe, possibly less) and then if you still don't pay it goes to a collection agency (third party, not the city).
If you want to fight the ticket and have your day in court you are welcome to by putting down a $100 deposit first. The whole thing is a sham as far as I'm concerned but in the end my time and effort is worth more than the cost of the ticket so I just paid the dang thing. |
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LMAO
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 28 2009 Location: Middletucky Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 9:41am |
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I was going down Verity pkwy.(73) and turn right on 14 ave. on red and the camerea flashed.This has been at least a month ago havent got a suprise in the mail.Didnt know that if you dont come to a complete stop you get flashed. |
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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Posted: Feb 23 2011 at 10:45pm |
How can they even think about enforcing any such sham law when every day I get off of 75 south at 122 and there is a big sign at the red light stating no turn on red which everyone just keeps making the turn anyways and I have never seen a policeman in the area. The sign is not the one hanging off the traffic light,instead it is place on the right hand side which I interpret that it means the far right hand lane.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 24 2011 at 2:39am |
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Okay, first I must apologize for TWO things: Number one: I was not clear about the issue that I was raising. The issue is NOT “red light” photo enforcement. Whether we like it or not, that ordinance was duly passed by City Council a few years ago. The issue is what appears to be photo enforcement of SPEEDING!!! That is the issue I was raising in my initial post under this topic, and I was unclear in my initial effort to do so. I am sorry!!! Number two: My memory did fail me concerning exactly what the signs say. I apologize!!! Let me try to set the record straight right now. To the best of my recollection, for years there was a sign on southbound Breiel, as one approached Central that read: REDUCED SPEED 35 AHEAD Now, I cannot recall ever seeing a sign actually showing the speed limit NORTH of Central to be 35 mph. Now, the “reduced speed ahead” sign has apparently been replaced by TWO signs on a single sign post. The upper sign reads: SPEED LIMIT 35 Just below that sign, on the same post, is a sign reading: PHOTO ENFORCED
I guess this means that the speed limit on Breiel now changes from 45 to 35 somewhere along Breiel BEFORE you reach Central Avenue instead of as you cross Central, and that this “speed trap” type change is being (or will soon be) “photo enforced”!!! I cannot recall ever seeing an ordinance passed authorizing “photo enforcement” of speed violations. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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HomeTownGal
Outsider 
Joined: Oct 21 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Posted: Feb 24 2011 at 2:39pm |
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Tomahawk35: It appears they recently changed this on 75 south to 122 exit (noticed it this past weekend). The sign on the traffic light now indicates that curb lane may take a right on red. I agree...previously this was not indicated and many people would still make a right on red even though the sign on the light and the sign by the right-hand lane indicated no turn on red. They should probably also add the blurb to the right-hand lane sign that the curb lane may take a right turn on red.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 6:21am |
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OK, folks. You seemed to be unconcerned when I first brought up this subject back in February. Perhaps some of you even thought ol’ Presta had been standing out in the cold too long (I assure you that was not the case) or was simply having another “senior moment” (always a possibility). Most of you seemed to think that I was simply confused about the signage at the photo-enforced red light locations, and thought that I should turn my car keys over to my wife. Well, I’ve been keeping a sharp eye out as I’ve driven around town lately. Now I grant you that I don’t drive by all of the red light camera locations, but all of the ones that I have passed by recently have slowly but surely had the signage replaced. Gone are the signs with the “red, yellow, green” traffic signal symbols over the “PHOTO ENFORCED” signs. In their place are “SPEED LIMIT XX” over the “PHOTO ENFORCED” signs. This has been true at every red light camera location that I have passed through. Again, I admit that I have not passed through them all. Now this can only mean one thing: City Hall, in its infinite wisdom, has decided that photo enforced speed traps would be a good method of “revenue enhancement” to support the overspending by our municipal government. And our city employees would dare not make these signage changes on their own, since they are aware that it will take an ordinance passed by City Council to enact photo-enforced speeding control. This means that the City Manager and at least FOUR members of City Council have met and agreed that they will proceed with this change!!! They NEVER would have began changing the signs without at least tacit approval from Council!!! Once again we have sneaky, behind-closed-door meetings where public business has been decided behind the backs of the citizenry without open discussion!!! And they wonder why we don’t trust them??? |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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middletownscouter
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 11 2010 Location: Sunset Park Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 8:08am |
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I think maybe before we go jumping into the deep end on this issue and start making accusations about policy changes and closed door meetings, we should verify that there actually was a change to something more than the signs. Has anyone yet gotten a speeding ticket in the mail from one of the camera stations? Has anyone contacted the police or city hall to ask if they've made a change? Or are we just letting our minds run wild on the internet?
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 9:05am |
You silly, silly man... you suggest that someone actually call to VERIFY something from the people who would know rather than speculating on a blog? Where's the fun in that? |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 9:15am |
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Silly me!!!
Now that I've thought about it, I sure that I'm wrong. I'm sure that the City just had so many people standing around with nothing to do that the City Manager had them order some new signs and spend the time and money going around replacing perfectly good signs, just to keep them busy instead of laying them off.
Yeah...that's it!!!
Also, no one could have been cited to date since council has not yet passed the ordinance. Please read my previous post!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 9:21am |
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By the way, I'll wait here quietly, while one of you two comes up with a logical alternate explanation for the City going to the time, trouble and EXPENSE of changing these signs that is NOT a waste of time or money.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 11:07am |
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The issue with the cameras is really it is not about safety, it is about being a collection bureau for cheap fines and revenue. Recall the numerous references by Ms. G to 'increased revenue.' The absolute worst intersections in Middletown don't have the cameras, and where they should be. I was almost killed and would have been, at the intersetion of Marshall and 122 last evening, had I not been driving as a truck hauling AK coils went barreling through the red light at about 45 mph. Someone was killed there about 5 years ago by a truck hauling AK coils, but no traffic light. The other is Rosedale and Brehel, where countless speeders run through the light repeatedly, but no camera. A sham and hurts Middletown's image.
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 11:41am |
Acclaro, Perhaps you should ask the MPD about the process by which the intersections are selected. It's my understanding that a pretty extensive amount of data is collected to make determinations about where to place cameras. If you have a concern about an intersection, have you contacted the MPD? |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 4:08pm |
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This silly man is still waiting quietly for a logical alternate explanation for the City going to the time, trouble and EXPENSE of changing these signs that is NOT a waste of time or money.
PS to Marianne and Middletownscouter:
The telephone number for Middletown Police Department administration (non-emergency) is 425-7756.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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middletownscouter
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 11 2010 Location: Sunset Park Status: Offline Points: 501 |
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Posted: May 23 2011 at 9:25am |
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Good to know you know the number, you're the one doing all the ranting and raving, why don't you call them yourself. Or you know, you could just continue to be a jerk on the internet. That's much easier.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 24 2011 at 7:31am |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: May 24 2011 at 7:35am |
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Further, since I follow city affairs closely, I already know that no such ordinance has yet been passed. That was the whole point of my previous posts, if you would have bothered to try to comprehend them prior to taking potshots at me. So there is no need for me to call anyone. By the way, I'll let the readers judge which, if any, of the above posts most nearly meets the definition of "ranting and raving"!!! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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Posted: May 24 2011 at 8:23am |
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Mr. P, Why you silly, silly man!!! If you haven't already noticed, our fair city regularly violates the law so there is no need to go to the trouble of following "procedure"! I'm sure that one day in the next millenium they'll get around to actually codifying this change; besides, as apathetic as the citizenry is, they won't challenge anything. I'm sure the deportation of naysayers will be next!!! Perhaps by then they can whittle the population down to that "quaint" 20,000 number that is more in tune with the "vision" our elected leaders have for our fair city. Just remember, everything is fine, full speed ahead, happy, happy, happy and anyone who says differently can just leave!!!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Mar 04 2012 at 4:13am |
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It has been nearly a year since I’ve posted on this subject,
but in the interim I’ve noticed more signs going up around town reading “TRAFFIC LAWS PHOTO
ENFORCED”. I think that anyone (except perhaps Marianne and Middletownscouter) who reads the article in today’s eJournal (here’s the link: http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/drivers-slowing-for-speed-cams-police-say-1338138.html ) will agree that photo enforced speeding tickets are coming to Middletown. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Mar 04 2012 at 6:26am |
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Today's Journal...
Red-light camera citations on decline The cameras also helped bring in more than $800,000 in fines I LIKE THIS ONE FROM LES LANDEN...... “(Traffic lights) are designed to try to prevent traffic accidents, to enhance the safety of the community,” Middletown Law Director Les Landen said. “We are using technology as we use it in other areas of law enforcement in an attempt to enforce the law.” WHAT A LOAD OF HORSECRAP LANDEN. ENFORCING THE LAW......YOU MEAN LIKE THE CITY ORDINANCES AND SUCH.  YOU ENFORCE THE LAW (OR TWIST IT)WHEN IT IS CONVENIENT TO YOU AND THE CITY AND BENEFITS YOUR CAUSE. IN THIS CASE IT IS A REVENUE ENHANCER JUST AS JACKING UP THE WATER AND SEWER RATES AND ATTEMPTS TO JACK UP THE CITY INCOME TAX RATES ARE. YOU CAN'T GET REVENUE MONEY THE WAY ALL OTHER TOWNS GET IT- THROUGH JOB CREATION, SO YOU ATTEMPT TO BLEED EVERYONE IN THIS TOWN DRY BY INITIATING PROGRAMS LIKE THIS.
John C. Sennet, of Middletown, would like to see residents place the camera program on the ballot. “You’re guilty until proven innocent,” he said of the requirement to pay the fine before challenging it in court. “It would be nice for council to do what the people want, and if the majority of the people don’t want them, then let’s get rid of them.” AGREE MR. SENNET. |
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Mar 04 2012 at 1:48pm |
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I was a member of the Citizens' Advisory Board to the police dept. when this concept was brought forth.
Initially I was opposed for the same "Big Brother" reasoning mentioned here, alongwith the structure of the appeals process.
As we continued to discuss this issue, I gradually changed my thinking because:
1. Speeding through red lights at congested intersections was all too common, and extremely dangerous.
2. Manpower was not going to be available to monitor the situation efficiently.
3. The potential positives of this program far out-weighed the negatives imo.
Since passage, violations have decreased, and also serious accidents at monitored intersections.
Violators are issued citations--have a fair appeals process(if you are not completely beyond the stop line, then you will be exonerated), and quire simply, the act of speeding through red lights is very dangerous to the drivers and innocents involved.
People are stopping at red lights, and accident #s have decreased.
A "win" situation for everyone.
Can speed violations also be given?
Very easily by simply flipping on a few switches and program changes.
Are these readings accurate?
I don't know.
Safer intersections and driving habits benefit everyone.
The lives saved could well be yours or acquantances or anyone.
Don't see the issue here.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Mar 04 2012 at 2:40pm |
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Spiderjohn......"As we continued to discuss this issue, I gradually changed my thinking because:
1. Speeding through red lights at congested intersections was all too common, and extremely dangerous". "Initially I was opposed for the same "Big Brother" reasoning mentioned here" "Don't see the issue here" That is the issue. Too much government sticking it's nose in people's private lives just like the seat belt law, and, let's be honest here.....at least part of this program is to generate revenue for the city under the guise of safety. Again, JMO. Let's take a vote to see if the people really want this in their lives instead of having it crammed down our throats. IMO, the speeding through red lights could have been avoided by increasing the yellow light timing. The way the lights are set up now, the light is green and quickly turns red with no hint of yellow. Ya gotta give the car that is approaching at 45 mph a chance to clear the intersection at locations such as Breile and Roosevelt, Breile and Central and Grand and Breile. You can't have a designated speed limit of 45 on these boulevards and expect a car approaching the intersection at 45 to stop on a dime. Longer yellow light times would help the cars caught in the intersection.(or lower the speed limit to 35).It is knowing that as I approach an intersection at 45, that I am going to have a quick green to red scenario, that causes me to speed up to make it through. Either that or jam on the breaks to stop in time. Going through or jamming on the breaks are both dangerous situations. IMO, the city creates the dangerous situation of running the red lights by the fact that they have no time for caution at the intersection. Give the yellow a few more seconds at the traffic controller box. JMO |
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