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Thursday, May 2, 2024 |
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School Replacement / Levy |
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Marcia Andrew
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 09 2010 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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Vivian, please provide any evidence you have to support your statement that Dr. Price wanted more Section 8 in the City. Despite some weaknesses, Dr. Price is a very smart guy who knows better than most the challenges of teaching kids from low socio-economic backgrounds, and that more students from these households would depress test scores for the district (on which he was judged). I find it very hard to believe that he would have encouraged the City to increase Section 8 housing. Also, my understanding is that City Council members who presided during the time that vouchers were dramatically increased did not even realize what was happening or the long term consequences. If that is the case, how do you claim that the school superintendent knew what was happening, let alone promoted it? City government is separate from the schools.
Support Middletown, the percentage amount of the state matching funds was determined by the OSFC at the beginning of Middletown's master plan before the bond levy for the first phase (the elementary schools). The percentage of the total cost that the state will pay is different for each district and was determined based on the "property wealth" or real estate tax base, of the district. At the time the calculation was done, property wealth included the tax base for both real property and business tangible property (equipment and inventory) that was subject to real estate taxes. Middletown was considered a high property wealth district due to its industrial base, primarily AK Steel. Based on this, the state assigned us 26% (I think that is right--I may be off a few percentage points) as the amount the state would pay. Subsequent to this determination, the state legislature revamped the tax structure for businesses, eliminating real estate taxes for business tangible property and putting in place a Commercial Activity Tax for business income. The net result for businesses may or may not be a wash, I don't know, but the net result for schools and others that rely on property tax revenue was a substantial reduction in revenue (the Commercial Activity Tax revenue goes to the state general fund). We have worked with our state representative, Tim Derickson, to amend the law to allow for Middletown and a few other districts in a similar situation to have their state match percentage recalculated based on the current "property wealth" of the district, without the ability to tax equipment and inventory. Twice the legislature has passed a provision to correct the unequitable situation, and twice Governor Kasich has rejected it with a line item veto.
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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TonyB!
"While the area still lags in test score performance, they are improving and continued improvement would help in passing a levy" Tony, I'll ask you the question I ask everyone who sees and admits that the test scores have languished in the abyss, the indicators, by Ms. Andrew's own admission have reduced in number from the 10 of 26 they had at one time to 6(?) of 26, and, as we keep passing levies, albeit after the second and third time of cramming it down our throats, why on earth would people look the other way and suggest they are improving and "with continued improvement would help a levy pass?" Everyone has seen the test scores for a least a decade. Everyone has not seen any significant improvement coming out of the new elementaries that were built years ago. Everyone sees the reduction in indicators met. Everyone sees that the schools have not moved from continuous improvement for a decade or more. Yet, we have comments that suggest that if we just do a little bit more for them in support through levy approvals, things might change. Where is the evidence that will happen? Haven't we thrown enough money down the perverbial black hole of "just one more time and maybe they will improve" to conclude that they might always be stuck at continuous improvement and we are wasting money by approving their levies? I'll ask you what I ask Ms. Andrew......how much more time (and money) do we give it before we decide to pull the plug and feel there is no more value added benefits? I say 2 or 3 decades is enough time to improve. JMO |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 19 2012 Location: middletown Status: Offline Points: 952 |
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I think year round school is a viable option!
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LMAO
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 28 2009 Location: Middletucky Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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Here's a idea,How about looking into year round school?
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TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
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City government could go a long way toward helping reduce costs by allowing the school district to rent their office space in the city building for $1. It's not like they haven't given away anything recently and it would help the school district lower costs. As for a new building, the Vail building was old and in need of replacement back in the last century when I went there (the decade is unimportant here, lol). While the area still lags in test score performance, they are improving and continued improvement would help in passing a levy. That being said, it really comes down to a matter of making the investment in a future that some residents may never see or continuing down the spiral of decay that has engulfed the city since I went to Middletown Freshman High (that gives you a clue how long ago). It will be interesting to see what happens.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Vail has to go--there is no real fix
Wade E goes with it
No other way
Verity site is the chosen location
New high school is off the table fior now I believe
Can't see new students coming in to Middletown, probably the opposite
With govt taxes set to rise drastically, levys are shaky
I can't support a school levy at this time, though I believe in the current school administration
City govt?
That is another story
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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All you have to do is read this one topic to see where Middletown is headed. Of all the posts in this one topic everyone has a different idea of how to save Middletown. Some say keep section 8, some say we need a palace for a senior center, some say we don't need a new Middle School Or High School, others say if you vote for a new school you're stupid. I must really be stupid because I believe we new 2 new schools (a high school and a middle school). This town is so disfunctional that from the poverty group, the middle income, to the wealthiest absolutely no one can get off their asses to come together to improve the city. Everyone just sits around and worries about their own little problems. You can't get enough people together to decide what time of day it is. How do you people every plan to make changes in this city? It is utterly ridculous that the citizens of the city can not take even the top 5 issues and come together as a group and fix each one, one at at time.
It is pathetic. Pacman |
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digger-2
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Oct 18 2012 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Vivian -
Perhaps someone could tutor Mr. Atkins on community development cost/benefit analysis principles. What will the negotive economic impact be to houses he does not demolish? Does he have a clue? Does it matter to this stalwart Mason resident?
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Vail is likely one of the oldest (or the oldest?) operating school in Butler County. I believe Ms. Andrews when she says there is a lot of support for a new school. It is unfortunate the OSFC monies are not available as they were for Hamilton and many other districts. Hamilton's $200 M school rebuild/renovation was 59% funded by the OSFC.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Please let me remind you that it was Dr. Price and City Hall that wanted more Section 8 in the Middletown area so they could increase the population of the city and the number of children in the Middletown School District.
So we built the new schools. They also got more goverment money for low income students.
Now we are being told that Mr. Adkins wants to remove 1,000 vouchers from the Section 8 program. That will equal about 2,000 students being removed from the local school system over the next few years. He also wants to demo about 3,000 properties and that will remove thoundands of tax dollars from our school system. How many dollars in property taxes has the school lost with City Hall purchase of the Thatcher property downtown? You would be SHOCKED to know the answer to this question. How will we fill all the new schools we just built? Yes sir this has been a really great plan for our community.... |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Respectfully Ms. Andrew, you are completely wrong. Many do not want a new school, many want results. Many formed a voting block with the Senior Citizen Center to pay for the equity gain from the old John XXIII building to be used for Fenwick move. In turn, the school gets its turn, after it helped pass the public safety levy.
Raising taxes will stymied influx of student demand for, not support nor increase it. But that fact has no import. The same idiocy as before; build it and they will come. Wrong people running city into ground over and over. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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"If you vote for a School Levy, You're Stupid!" Daryl Parks 700 WLW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhAeyuLovtk |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Ms. Andrew:
"I was not on the school board the last bond levy and don't remember to what extent the levy was sold as new buildings will result in increased test scores (although I don't think it was ever said quite that way; better and more modern facilities would be one factor in student achievement, but not the only factor" Some very capable researchers on this site (Mike P. or Vivian- others?)(I'm not worth a crap on doing this) want to dig out the selling points from Price to sell the community on voting for the 45 mil levy for new elementary schools? Would that be in the Journal archives, say, 5+ years ago maybe????? Don't remember when the new elementaries were built. Wouldn't surprise me that there would be some comment about "increasing student performance" if new schools were built from Price. It would be nice to show Ms. Andrew how Price approached the voters on selling points. Ms. Andrew: "However, I agree with Pacman that we won't attract new middle class families to town and to our school system with the Vail building. And a dilapidated building with poorly regulated heating and no air conditioning is certainly one factor that would depress efforts and expectations of both students and teachers in the building." Maybe so Ms. Andrew, but you're also not going to attract new middle class people to Middletown when they see the test scores, hear about the reputation, see the indicator level achievement and see how long Middletown has been languishing in the bottom tier either. Some people think a quality education trumps fancy buildings and you can receive that quality education in an antiquated building. You can knock down the old buildings and build new schools to look appeasing, but it's just window dressing when one finds out what results come out of those spiffy new buildings. Content, Ms. Andrew, not surface fluff. JMO Ms. Andrew: "As foreign as it may sound to some on this site, many people in town want a new school". Then those same people have not bothered to check out what their money has gotten them. Was the 45 mil worth it when considering the results to date? New schools, as has been proven so far, does not yield eye-opening results and does not necessarily make one eager to let go of more money to support more of what has yet to be a good ROI. How much longer do we give it? 5.....10 more years? |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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LMAO
MUSA Citizen Joined: Oct 28 2009 Location: Middletucky Status: Offline Points: 468 |
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I sure in the hell dont want to pay for another school.Put the levy on the ballot and it will be defeated.
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Marcia Andrew
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 09 2010 Status: Offline Points: 365 |
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ktf, the school district has a facilities commitee, that includes community members and an architectural firm, that explored the questions you ask. There were discussion threads about it last spring, including posts by some of the community members on that committee including Mike Presta, who attended meetings. To remodel Vail to meet current Ohio School Facilities Standards would be more expensive than building new. To remodel/renovate Verity and build an addition (Verity is much smaller than Vail and not big enough to serve as the sole middle school) was not cost effective either. However, the committee did recommend that we renovate/remodel the high school instead of building new and the school board adopted that recommendation to change our master plan, which had originally called for both new high school and new middle school.
I was not on the school board the last bond levy and don't remember to what extent the levy was sold as new buildings will result in increased test scores (although I don't think it was ever said quite that way; better and more modern facilities would be one factor in student achievement, but not the only factor). However, the second half of the new/renovated elementary schools were completed for the 2008-09 school year. The district's Performance Index score has gone up every year since then from 2008 to 2012.
Personally, speaking for myself, I would never promise you that a new middle school will cause increased test scores. However, I agree with Pacman that we won't attract new middle class families to town and to our school system with the Vail building. And a dilapidated building with poorly regulated heating and no air conditioning is certainly one factor that would depress efforts and expectations of both students and teachers in the building.
If the school board decides to put a bond levy on the ballot, the voters will decide whether the community needs and can afford a new middle school -- not the school board. As foreign as it may sound to some on this site, many people in town want a new school.
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ktf1179
MUSA Citizen Joined: Mar 19 2012 Status: Offline Points: 518 |
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How much would it cost just to remodel and bring the school up to code instead of building a new School? That's is what Springboro did with Springboro Intermediate School which the main part of it was built in 1903. That to me would be a lot easier and cheaper than building a new school.
Or possibly add on to the existing schools to make room for those students. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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I never fell for the Steve Prices 'Our Standing Will Go Through The Roof If We get New Schools" Gimmick. However I do firmly believe that New Schools make a good immpression when people are selecting a place to live. I do not believe that a Senior Center Levy to pay down the mortgage with only 1200 members out of Seniors is a good and wise investment.
It is the crying about "NO Levy's for new schools", yet we give "Levy's for Senior Center's" that will doom this city. Most of the citizens of this city only care about what effects them personally. There is no organization or groups of citizens interested in making any change that would make this city more desirable for MIDDLE INCOME RESIDENTS TO MOVE TO. Pacman |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Pac:
"Good Schools and New facilities are a prime attraction for new middle class residents to a city." PAC, WE COULD HAVE A SCHOOL SYSTEM THE QUALITY OF ROSS, LAKOTA AND SPRINGBORO ALL ROLLED INTO ONE, BUT THE WAY THIS TOWN IS RUN AND THE REPUTATION IT HAS WOULD OVERSHADOW EVEN THE BEST SCHOOL SYSTEM IMO. "This is exactly what I was talking about early when I referring to "We Gotta have the Senior center Levy", then when the School Levy comes around it's "Screw the School Levy", "Screw the Schools", "Screw the Kids". " NO PAC, NOT SCREW THE KIDS......SCREW THE FACT THAT WE HAVE GOTTEN VERY LITTLE FOR ALL THE LEVIES WE HAVE PASSED FOR THEM. GOTTEN VERY LITTLE FOR THE 45 MIL BOND LEVY WE APPROVED TO BUILD NEW ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND HAVE NOT SEEN ANY REAL PROGRESS IN UPWARD TREND SINCE THE SCHOOLS WENT FROM ACADEMIC WATCH TO CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT, WHAT, A DECADE AGO?THEY ARE TREADING WATER AND FAR FROM LEARNING TO SWIM. DO YOU (OR ANY ONE ELSE) FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE MONEY YOU HAVE PUT INTO THIS DISTRICT AND THE ROI? IF THIS SCHOOL SYSTEM WERE A STOCK IN YOUR PORTFOLIO, YOU WOULD HAVE DUMPED IT YEARS AGO FOR LACK OF PERFORMANCE. YA JUST CAN'T KEEP THROWING MONEY DOWN THE BLACK HOLE OF COMPLACENCY CAN YOU? THIS DISTRICT IS STAGNATED AND THE GEAR IS STUCK IN SECOND. IT WILL NEVER HAVE A CHANCE OF IMPROVING UNTIL THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE PROGRAM STOP COMING UP WITH "GIMMICK" PROGRAMS AND ACTUALLY ATTACK THE ISSUES AND MAKE WHOLESALE CHANGES THAT MEAN SOMETHING. THE FIGHTER CAN JAB ALL DAY, BUT IT IS THE KNOCKOUT PUNCH THAT SENDS THE ISSUES TO THE CANVASS. THAT IS WHY I DON'T VOTE FOR LEVIES.....IT'S THE SAME OLD SAME OLD WHEN THEY GET THEIR MONEY...NO REAL EYE-OPENING IMPROVEMENTS FOR YEARS-STILL AT THE BOTTOM-STILL THE SAME NUMBER OF INDICATORS NOT MET-STILL NOT A QUALITY DISTRICT AFTER THREE DECADES...AND WE HAVE HIGHER PROPERTY TAXES TO ADD INSULT TO INJURY. HOW MUCH TIME DO THEY NEED TO BRING IT BACK AGAIN? JMO NOW, AS TO THE SENIORS LEVY. MY WIFE AND I VOTED FOR IT FOR SELFISH REASONS. WE USE THE HANDICAPPED VAN AND THE MEALS ON WHEELS. WE FELT WE "GAVE BACK" A LITTLE BY DOING SO. IT WAS A CATCH 22 FOR US. VOTED YES TO KEEP THE SERVICES GOING, BUT WOULD HAVE VOTED NO TO HELP THEM PAY OFF A BLOATED, POORLY PLANNED EXECUTION IN BUILDING THE CENTER. AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY WITH THOSE WHO ARE ANGRY ABOUT THE PASSAGE TO HELP PAY OFF THE MORTGAGE. |
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I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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The article cites extremely anecdotal reasons to replace Vail.
Would the new middle school be built on the old Verity site? |
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tomahawk35
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 18 2008 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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21st century? We will soon be living in the 18th/19th century if we listen to the greedy people who run the city and school system while they live high and mighty on our money.
You need a new middle school, what was wrong with Verity middle school?
The kid's grades are suffering because of poor condition of the present school,who are you trying to con? this school system ranks in the near bottom of all schools systems in Ohio and has been there for a long time.
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Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
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Unreal to think how many people voted for the Senior Center levy while having no real idea why. Did these people understand it was NOT to keep the center in business but rather to pay off a bloated mortgage they couldn't afford? How many of these voters even use or will ever use the center?
Old saying about Grand Juries is that a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich. In Middletown, a pig levy would pass 65/35.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Good Schools and New facilities are a prime attraction for new middle class residents to a city. Personally I do not think it is a Senior Citizen Center that only attracts 1200 paying member a year.
This is exactly what I was talking about early when I referring to "We Gotta have the Senior center Levy", then when the School Levy comes around it's "Screw the School Levy", "Screw the Schools", "Screw the Kids". This makes no sense if you want Middletown to come into the 21st century. Middletown has a very distinct popluation breakdow: 1.) high popluation of poor who can not afford to leave the city. 2.) middle income who can not leave the city because of their residence. 3.) There are some people actually choose to live here (why? not sure ) 4.) Senior Citizens who will never leave. These people never come together as a group to improve the city. They just worry about their own little world. Pacman |
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Bocephus
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 838 |
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what does it all mean when our corrupt politicians will stop at nothing to be elected even if it means sending america to third world status?
Momentum builds for U.S. immigration reform planBy Will Dunham | Reuters – 1 hr 10 mins ago (Reuters) - Two U.S. senators launched a fresh move to put together a bipartisan immigration reform plan on Sunday, restarting talks on a proposal that includes a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants already in the country. Since President Barack Obama was re-elected last week with overwhelming support from Hispanic voters, many Republicans have expressed a new willingness to work with Democrats to pass immigration reform after years of legislative inaction. Appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press," Democratic Senator Charles Schumer said he and Republican Senator Lindsey Graham have agreed to resume talks on immigration reform that broke off two years ago. "And I think we have a darned good chance using this blueprint to get something done this year. The Republican Party has learned that being ... anti-immigrant doesn't work for them politically. And they know it," Schumer said. Obama in 2010 called the proposal backed by Graham and Schumer a "promising framework," but it made no headway. There are an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States, most of them Hispanics. Speaking on the CBS program "Face the Nation," Graham said the tone and rhetoric used by members of his party on immigration "built a wall between the Republican Party and the Hispanic community." He noted that Republican presidential candidates have been steadily losing the support of Hispanic voters since 2004. "This is an odd formula for a party to adopt: the fastest-growing demographic in the country, and we're losing votes every election cycle. And it has to stop. It's one thing to shoot yourself in the foot. Just don't reload the gun. ... I intend to tear this wall down and pass an immigration reform bill that's an American solution to an American problem," Graham said. PATH TO CITIZENSHIP The Graham and Schumer plan has four components: requiring high-tech, fraud-proof Social Security cards to ensure that illegal workers cannot get jobs; strengthening border security and enforcement of immigration laws; creating a process for admitting temporary workers; and implementing a path to legal status for immigrants already in the country. Schumer said the plan embraces "a path to citizenship that's fair, which says you have to learn English, you have to go to the back of the line, you've got to have a job, and you can't commit crimes." Graham added, "Sixty-five percent of the people in the exit poll of this election supported a pathway to citizenship." Many Republican leaders have taken a hard position against illegal immigrants. Obama's unsuccessful Republican challenger, Mitt Romney, during the campaign advocated "self-deportation" of illegal immigrants. Republicans in Arizona and other states have passed tough laws cracking down on illegal immigrants. Since the election, some influential conservative voices, including television commentator Sean Hannity, have announced support for immigration reform that includes a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants with no criminal record. "We have nobody to blame but ourselves when it comes to losing Hispanics, and we can get them back with some effort on our part," Graham said. House of Representatives Speaker John Boehner, the top Republican in Congress, said on Friday the U.S. immigration system is broken. He has expressed confidence Republicans could find common ground with Obama. The Obama administration announced in June it would relax U.S. deportation rules so that many young illegal immigrants who came to the United States as children can stay and work. The change would allow illegal immigrants who, among other criteria, are younger than 30 years old and have not been convicted of a felony to apply for work permits. (Editing by Doina Chiacu) |
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digger-2
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Oct 18 2012 Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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A nation of fools.
A nation of sheep. Hussein Obama is Santa Claus. What does it all mean?
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Middletown needs to rebrand its name to reflect its corruption values and dishonesty. It's not Brighter Future, it's The Big Easy. The Mulligan's, Picard, and Becker lay asphalt for getting the voting blocks out, and Smith and Jones secure help in urban Development making good Cincinnati State the gem of downtown, led by a small,niche stained glass team, and Main Street securing a bright future for their properties, while others are neglected, the Big Easy of cramming get tax levies through at a minimum of 60 percent, is a piece of cake, aka, the Big Easy.
All through the last week of the election in November, the city fire trucks were at the Sr Citizen Ctr, strategizing to rack up a win Obama style. The Big Easy is so easy, in spite of continued horrific school performance and singing the praises of Dr. Price, the school board and lifers are ready to fire up building the middle school. Heck, it's so Big Easy, why wait! Middletown is run and ruined by a few passing deals and favors back and forth, to get their votes. I know one council members who took care of the Milton Street area, making road repairs around that area. The extra money for asphalt for 2 Mm paying back certain areas that carried the public safety levies. For fools who think Landen is trying go save money for allowing police and fire fighters to sell, cash out is the proper terminology to save overtime, that is an enormous benefit of a cash advance, a reward for passing the domino levies. Tee up the health levy again, The Big Easy tax passage of 60-75 is just damn easy with this council. I recommend Wetherington in West Chester for those that are sick of paying Connecticut or California taxes in a city offering nothing. City Manager getting a raise for development of downtown. Laughable. She raises the bar for others wanting raises and padding their wallets while executing what the Mulligans, Picard, and Becker told her to do, in conjunction with the Moorman 's. The Big Easy, the city rolling over its people to drive up taxes all which make it impossible go sell property, is too easy, and based upon favors, and quid products quo. And the tragedy is no one cares. What poor leadership, what a flock of sheep that follow. It's not a successful formula, but one that won't change, and discourages outsiders to ever make Middletown their home. Only in Middletown is failed leadership rewarded. |
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'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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