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poverty

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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: poverty
    Posted: Jul 07 2013 at 9:34am
holy moly
We all knew that it was bad, but THIS bad?
Poverty almost doubles in Hamilton to 20.9%, and here in Middietown, we now are at 23.2%!!!!(and that was a couple of years ago). Absolutely un-sustainable, and rising with no end in sight. Not only a local issue, however we always seem to be on the high end of these trends while on the low end of new living-wage job opportunities.
 
Council/Admin is drowning under this---and our town is crumbling from the sewers, streets, jobs, crime---you name it.
Can't lay fault with any one group of people, though these trends have to be broken. Obviously it is a national and global issue.
 
I assume that a movie complex and a few more mid/low level restaurants is all that we can support.
Still--we have the new owners of Towne Mall struggling for quality tenants---why couldn't that area transform to the movie restaurant complex, since it is already leaning towards low-end retail and vacant? This would leave the eastend still available for eventual higher-end jobs development as has been always planned.
 
Where is MMF? We haven't heard from them since Admin handed them a check for $75,000.
Weren't they trumpeting that they had been in charge of development of that east end area?
They crapped out in the former downtown area---so why the need for cash if they have also abandoned east end planning? How was the $$ used? Expenses(lol--for what--meetings/lunches?)?
When is their next meeting?
Actually Council/Admin is well-represented there--maybe they could give an update at their next public meeting!
Maybe the MJ could actually research this, and inform the readersip public.
 
AND.....
we have our annual ballon event next week-end.
The entrances to Smith Park are still an embarrassing mess.
The hydraulic is still a green, mucky disaster(haven't been down there since the rains--should be interesting), and the cement retainer walls along Verity have crumbled to non-existence. The weed growth has been ignored.
Hope that the weather co-operates so that we have balloon flights and patrons.
Either way--outsiders won't get a flattering view of our community, and will leave with that impression.
 
Sorry for the rant--I don't have a great solution other than attacking these issues one small step at a time.
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 07 2013 at 10:34am
SJ, No need to apologize, you're just expressing the same frustration that many of us here in Midd. are feeling. We see our opertunities sliping away and there doesn't seem to be answers how to fix it except we know we can no longer cater to a select few, this a city and it's time to act in the interests of what's best for the "entire" city.
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Pacman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 07 2013 at 8:42pm
SJ, OTH

I couldn't agree more. However, it will take more than 10 or 20 citizen daily chats on a forum catering to citizens.  It will take 500 to 1000 active citizens who are willing to do a little work and kick in a few bucks to get the word out.  

PacmanCool
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Neil Barille View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Neil Barille Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 07 2013 at 9:46pm
This town is too far gone.  There is no hope within the next 20 years.  We're far closer to Detroit than we want to admit.
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acclaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 1:06am
Neil....you are absolutely right. I was driving around town today and just thought what an unsightly mess this city is downtown, east end, north, south. The streets are a mess, weeds growing through them, almost white in composition. This city is near being Detroit.

It would be interesting to have a poll answered.

What in your opinion, caused more decline in Middletown than anything:

A) City council's decisions including the robbing of the annual pavement fund to pay salaries for employees for 25 years.

B)  Lack of "greenfield" sites.

C)  Reactive mindset of all leaders from city council, city leaders, school board, others.

D)  Poverty brought in by the city (ergo Section 8).

E)  Poverty brought in by the city (ergo- lack of economic development).

F)  All of the above.

G) Will Middletown ever come back?

A) Yes
B) No

My answers are F and B.

Detroit version 2.0 is coming; Middletown is already in Mansfield, Youngstown, league. Brighter future? Hell no.  
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
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Richard Saunders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 5:29am
Acclaro:
 
Don't insult Detroit!  Detroit wasn't stupid enough to pick a fight with HUD, as Middletown has done.
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 10:29am
Acclaro, I also think it's F but i'm hoping there's still a chance for "the powers that be" to wake up though that will mean they will have to admit they may have made a mistake. Can you sue them for dereliction of duty. Just asking.
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ktf1179 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 10:48am
You were talking about grass in the streets here are some picture I took when I went for a walk in the Ayrshire Neighborhood yesterday. After I took these pictures I actually slipped and fell on a sidewalk that was wet and had alga growing on it.




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blue7 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blue7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 11:40am
How about drugs. Would that be put on our police department? With poverty and rampant hardcore drug use going on in this city is it cheaper for our city not to prosecute these individuals because of the manpower and lost money taking to prosecute them. They don't pay their fines and keep on taking up room in our jails between robbing people and stores. Should our police step up and patrol these areas more? Or is that a tax payer drain? I don't see middle class folks getting arrested at walmart for stealing.









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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 1:26pm
Acclaro you left out one of the main reasons for the decline of middletown/America, the loss of jobs that pay a liveable wage and have decent benefits.
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Stanky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 2:16pm
Bo, jobs just don't lose themselves. The question is why did companies leave Middletown, taking the jobs with them, and what could/should have been done about it OR whose fault is it that the conditions haven't been there for new companies to move in.
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 2:27pm
Isn't it our city council and and revitilation dept. and our city manager's job to try to keep what business we have and promote new businesses to the area?
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 08 2013 at 2:53pm
Excellent point, stanky
very telling ?
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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 09 2013 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by Stanky Stanky wrote:

Bo, jobs just don't lose themselves. The question is why did companies leave Middletown, taking the jobs with them, and what could/should have been done about it OR whose fault is it that the conditions haven't been there for new companies to move in.
 
For the same reason that the jobs left America to go over seas and down south where labor is cheaper and they have less rules and regulations to deal with? I think greed may have something to do with it.
 
And don't mistake that I agree with our city leadership, I think they have did their share of damage, over the last 30 years or so we have had a lot of bad decisions. It just seems like that when we had good paying jobs before a lot of the industries left town that we had better leadership choices.
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Bocephus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bocephus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 09 2013 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by over the hill over the hill wrote:

Isn't it our city council and and revitilation dept. and our city manager's job to try to keep what business we have and promote new businesses to the area?
 
What do you mean we have lots of new businesses too bad 90% of them are minimum wage and wont support the people that work there!
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squeemy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squeemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2013 at 9:13pm
Middletown's economy is more around the US than many realize. we don't lag the rest of the US - we've been leading America's decline for decades.

during our "bright past" (and bright it was) - there were over 50 corporate headquarters in Middletown, many of whom traded internationally.
many of these businesses operated in an economy that manufactured goods. Middletown, as in many other similar towns, created value by making stuff. it was capital intensive and employed a lot of people.

since the mid-20th century, manufacturing in the US was replaced by finance.
corporate profits in the US 1950 - manufacturing: 55%, finance: 8%
corporate profits in the US 2004- manufacturing: 6%, finance: 41%

the entire Nation is deluded into believing that moving money creates value and Middletown is among the first to see its results.
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HdMechanical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 10 2013 at 10:29pm
Hmmmmmmmmm......Maybe look at it this way, lower paying jobs still fund the tax base........Being a consumer 100% is the goal. Taxes are not collected on self-sufficiently, they create jobs and avenues which provide for more tax collections based on population density. They want to tax the same dollar a 100 times.....A lot of smaller businesses do not want higher paying jobs to move in, they will be stuck with a less educated pool of employees or slob workers to choose from.
 
It is a catch 22 in some aspects, I think CC is heading the right direction on fighting HUD....They need to decrease cost or increase revenue, if the Section 8 housing is a drain on resources then by all means cut it to the workable %.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 6:05am

Absolutly no proof that Section 8 tenents have increased crime or drained resources in Middletown.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 7:55am
Would be interesting to see the numbers on police responses - pre Section 8 lower numbers versus post Section 8 overabundance. Have read articles citing strains to city resources. Just comments, no data that I'm aware of. See the police briefs in the Journal everyday. Looks like we have a jump in theft from candy bars at the UDF to copper out of the air conditioners at businesses and residential. Can we tie this jump to the increase in the lowering of the income levels and all that that brings? Dunno. By inviting HUD to town in abundant numbers, have we made ourselves a target for influencing those connected with the criminal element here as well? Dunno. How about those "at-large" people we read about in the police briefs? Were they attracted here by the freebies initiated by the city?

I would imagine that with the increase in Section 8 and the invite of freebie hand-outs, the trend that would follow would be a certain amount of criminal element that would also track to the city that normally wouldn't be here. No proof...just stereotyping I guess. Wasn't Parma the other Ohio city saturated with Section 8? If so, wonder how they are faring on crime statistics?
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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over the hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote over the hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 9:35am
The police have stated the increase in theft has been directly connected to the increase drug use be it cocaine or even more so herion. Is that also connected to Sec 8, Dunno
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 10:08am
Lay the crime activity maps over the top of the S8 maps.
Scary--however S8 is somewhat scapegoated since the high- density crime areas are also lower- income non-s8 also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 10:21am
Guess we can't compare Parma's Section 8 program with Middletown. Dug up an old post from Nelson Self and Vivian dated 2010 which stated that Parma is around 80,000 in population where Middletown is around 48,000. Parma has the allotted (correct) 700+ in Section 8 vouchers where Middletown has 1400+ or so. Gonna skew the data a tad bit if we try to compare.

Spider: Section 8.....lower income....one in the same IMO. It is an addition of poverty that this city can ill afford. Guilt by association at best with Section 8. No matter how we slice it, it can't be a good thing to add to a city, especially in the inflated numbers asked for by the city leaders.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 11:56am
Guess we can't compare Parma's Section 8 program with Middletown. Dug up an old post from Nelson Self and Vivian dated 2010 which stated that Parma is around 80,000 in population where Middletown is around 48,000. Parma has the allotted (correct) 700+ in Section 8 vouchers where Middletown has 1400+ or so. Gonna skew the data a tad bit if we try to compare.

Spider: Section 8.....lower income....one in the same IMO. It is an addition of poverty that this city can ill afford. Guilt by association at best with Section 8. No matter how we slice it, it can't be a good thing to add to a city, especially in the inflated numbers asked for by the city leaders.

Spider and Vet
I posted 2 maps on this blog several years ago showing Section 8 and high crime areas however now I can’t find the post. High poverty areas = high crime areas is a true statement in almost ever city.
However the research and these maps clearly shows that City Hall over the past ten years did not use the HUD Funds in the areas of high poverty and high crime to help solve the problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:



Spider and Vet
I posted 2 maps on this blog several years ago showing Section 8 and high crime areas however now I can’t find the post. High poverty areas = high crime areas is a true statement in almost ever city.
However the research and these maps clearly shows that City Hall over the past ten years did not use the HUD Funds in the areas of high poverty and high crime to help solve the problems.
 
So where did they use them....? Is there a mandate they must use the funds only for HUD housing........I don't think so, the funds go in the city budget to be used as they see fit. Sure some funds are used for maintaining the properties to HUD standards just like any other land lord who accepts Section 8...Rental is revenue regardless of who pays it, HUD or me. Unless I missing something, this is a for profit venture by the city ....Just so happens they also fund the other resources for the general public. Seems to me the city is policing itself and those who really don't understand the inner workings are crying...
 
The city is under no obligation to stay committed to section 8  , whats keeps them from just saying kiss this and no longer accept section 8 vouchers......Apply for grants to make it greenspace or update for higher end housing and put the current tenants on the street......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HdMechanical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul 11 2013 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Richard Saunders Richard Saunders wrote:

Acclaro:
 
Don't insult Detroit!  Detroit wasn't stupid enough to pick a fight with HUD, as Middletown has done.
 
Of course not, they chose to collect the HUD money and allow the tenants to self-police......Thus GangLandClap
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