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Opinion regarding "Middletown Moving Forward"
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2009 at 7:47am
Come on Mr.Richter, Alien and everyone:
 
Why the similarity in organizational names?
IF Mrs.Mort is heading this political group as she did for the last Council elections, you can check the names on that list of who funded the larger donations for three Council candidates(Mr.Mulligan,Mr.Becker and Ms.Lawrence).
A lot of the same names on the CIC.
 
Not saying anything illegal is happening(also not saying the opposite), though Mr.Landen sounded a clear warning, imo. Seated Councilmembers such as Mayor Mulligan and Mr.Becker have consistently voted towards the CIC's thinking, and our sitting Mayor,Councilmember Marconi and city Manager are still listed as CIC members.
 
Something still smells here, and the MJ seems inclined to bury the issue with Mr.Richter's puff piece(which raises more ?s than gives answers).
 
Maybe meeting minutes,records and dates of the CIC should be reviewed. 
Since the local Chamber is involved with the CIC, any member should be able to request such documents and meeting schedules.
 
Hopefully this issue is far fromn dead and buried.
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Vivian Moon View Drop Down
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Spider
Do they really think we believe that the similarity in organizational names was an accident? LOL
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

Maybe meeting minutes,records and dates of the CIC should be reviewed. 
Since the local Chamber is involved with the CIC, any member should be able to request such documents and meeting schedules.
Since the CIC is a PUBLIC/private partnership and so many public officials are invovled, such information should be PUBLIC documents.
 
PS: Since Mr. Landen is the "registered agent" for the group, he should be able to quickly fill any requests for public documents.  (I hope someone asks for them.   I have a doctor's appt.)
 
PPS:  I will be responding to Mr. Alien later this afternoon!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

Mr. Nagy & Mr. Presta,

Before I had a chance to respond, it appears that Ed Richter answered the question for me.
Mr. Alien:

Well, it may “appear” that way to you, but it does not “appear” that way to me. Here are the questions that I asked you (I will number them for your convenience in replying):

1. And you know this how, sir? [Referring to you statement that my “information is incorrect about Middletown Moving Forward's activities”.]

2. Can you tell us who this "Moving Middletown Forward" group is?

3. Can you explain why no one from "Middletown Moving Forward" has come forward to make a statement on the matter?

4. Are you aware of everything that either Mr. Nagy or I have discovered as we investigated this subect?

5. Exactly where are we incorrect in what we have stated?

6, What facts do you have to back up your general denial (cloaked in anonymity, I might add)?

7. At least Mr. Nagy and I have a track record of sorts on these blogs, and post under our real names. The readers can judge for themselves what weight to allow our OPINIONS. What credence have you established?

I cannot find the answers to any of these questions within Mr. Richter’s article (except for perhaps a "quasi-answer" to number 3). Perhaps my reading comprehension skills are lacking? If so, can you assist me by quoting the words in the article that answer each question? Thank you in advance for your help. 

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

Moving Middletown Forward is the group that is recruiting candidates and the other issues you were concerned about.
Yes, I understand, but please, consider the following:

1. How unlikely it is that two different groups would have such similar names.

2. That Middletown Moving Forward has not come forward to DENY or clarify that it is not the same as, or associated with, the group that generated the document we have described. (Mr. Cohen’s remarks in Richter’s article only address “Middletown Moving Forward CIC”, but do not either address or deny knowledge of “Moving Middletown Forward”.  It is certainly not unheard of for people to be involved in more than one group.  Just look at all of the groups with which the various members of City Council are associated, many of whom compete for the same tax dollars.)

3. That no one else has come forward to claim to be Moving Middletown Forward.

 

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

Middletown Moving Forward is Middletown's CIC and, as Mr. Cohen stated, only interested in economic development issues to improve the business climate in Middletown.
Yes, I understand what they are saying, what they are “supposed” to be, and except for the last three or four sentences of Mr. Richter’s article, we have reported all of that right here in this thread, or in the thread referenced at the beginning of the very first post of this thread. That other thread is: Forum Home > Middletown Community > Middletown News, Info and Happenings > State Of The City Address-Upbeat/Realistic . The portion of the thread to which I am referring begins with Mr. Impala’s post of 11 Mar 2009 at 2:29pm.

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

Hopefully this is enough evidence to convince you that your postings were inaccurate, and the accusations that Middletown Moving Forward has some hidden agenda are unfounded.
Evidence? Sorry, but I must once again ask your help. Please point out to me exactly where in either Mr. Richter’s article or your post I find the “evidence”.

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

As I said in my previous post, I applaud your concern for the City, ...
Thank you, but no applause is necessary. I just want to get to the truth, and I really, really do appreciate your helping me to do so!

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

… but it is important to have the correct information so that you do not damage the efforts of others who are also trying to improve the City.
You are correct! And I hope that everyone tries to disseminate the true and accurate information until this matter is perfectly clear.  There have been many times that I have felt that others have tried to damage my efforts to improve our city.

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

Given the similarity of the names of the organization, it would be easy to confuse the groups.
Yes, I certainly agree. I had difficulty myself. As you state, it would be easy for someone to become confused and mistakenly type “Moving Middletown” instead of “Middletown Moving” when hurriedly trying to dash off a flyer to be handed out at meeting, for example. It would be just as easy for someone proofreading such a flyer to overlook such an error. When I was researching all of this, I confused the two several times and had to check and recheck to be certain that I was correct.

Originally posted by Alien Alien wrote:

I look forward to your response correcting this matter.
And here it is!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Paul Nagy View Drop Down
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Points: 384 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2009 at 3:32pm
Alien,
      Please quit quibbling and respond directly and plainly. Your generalities give us nothing that corrects anything that we should correct. Ed Richter didn't answer anything anymore than you or Les Landen did. Ed Richter simply copied everything off of the document and added a comment by Ken Cohen. You, Ed Richter, Ken Cohen and Les Landen saying there is another group called Moving Middletown Forward doesn't make it so. Prove there is another group called Moving Middletown forward and we will have to correct ourselves. I'm plainly stating that no one has proved there is such a group. I personally believe it is the same group and whoever typed the Document simply got the name wrong. But what I believe isn't important. The truth is important. You so strongly affirm that a group known as "Moving Middletown Forward" exists and has a different agenda, if you know this for a fact - please prove it. Tell us who they are,  when they came into existence, when they wrote and put that document out, etc. We all might want to join. We are just as interested in improving the business climate and improving the city. We need deep, serious changes in Middletown. Give us the correct information you say we do not have. I look forward to your response with names, places, etc. So that we can set the record straight. I won't hold my breath tho.
         I appreciate and look forward to your answer.
                                       Paul Nagy
      
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 25 2009 at 4:05pm
Actually this situation has just come to life, and probably will have many twists and turns as we move into the fall election campaigns.
 
A lot of interesting and pointed ?s for Council candidates will be forthcoming, including ties to either MMF or other organizations, along with hard ?s on issues.
 
Also a close following of the actions/meetings of the MMF CIC and their individual members.
 
Hey--maybe we should all join these organizations to share our ideas and input!
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Alien View Drop Down
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Points: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alien Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2009 at 10:01am
I noticed in today's weekly update to Council that Ms. Gilleland addressed the confusion about MMF. Her comments were as follows:

"There has been some confusion about our Community Improvement Corporation: “Middletown Moving Forward”, which is a city-sponsored organization formed to provide economic development opportunities and another organization whose name is similar, but has nothing to do with the city. The other organization is using the name of “Moving Middletown Forward” and seems to be promoting political candidates. Obviously, the city organization is not related to the other organization."

I am sure some of you will choose to believe that this is a smoke screen attempting to cover up some clandestine organization, but her words are truthful and accurate. A lot of the issues on Middletown USA are legitimate concerns and worth the energy - the MMF issue is a waste of your time.
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Paul Nagy View Drop Down
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Alien,
        Once again in your zeal to protect the situation you say that Ms. Gilliland's words are truthful and accurate. Yet, neither you nor she offer any proof that "another group" exists. We repeat, saying it doesn't make it so. Who is the other group? When did it start? If this group does  honestly and legally exist it will end the matter. If it does not, you are wrong again when you say "the MMF issue is a waste of time". Why don't you quit wasting our time and give us the facts of this group that you so strongly attempt to protect and the matter will be over? Nothing that you say has substance and is starting to get in my craw. This is not a game. This is a serious matter that has to do with serious issues like corruption, election fraud and democracy.
          Paul Nagy
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Truth Teller View Drop Down
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If only Middletown had 10 more truth-seekers such as Paul Nagy our community would be such an improved place to live!
 
When I moved here two years ago I was told by a city employee and prominent S. Main Street mansion owner to watch out for Mr. Nagy.  Well, two years later my response to his bogus warning is like that of General Patton - NUTS!
 
Keep up the good work Paul as the truth will eventually reach the light of day!
 
Nelson Self
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Can someone tell us where to find the original document that proclaimed that MMF is procuring political candidates to further their agenda? What facility can we go to and retrieve these hard-copy documents?
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Points: 2749 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2009 at 12:56pm

Well alien--YES, I see this response as a smoke screen. Hiowever I hardly view this(these) organization(s) as clandestine.

We will see how this issue unfolds, as it has hardly gone away. Actually certainly should come into play increasingly as new candidates emerge and we get get closer to election time. It will probably be VERY interesting.
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Points: 3483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 17 2009 at 2:42pm
Alien:
Can you or Ms. Gilleland explain who comprises this "other organization"?
 
They are using a name so very similar to the name of the "Community Improvement Corporation" that one would think that the city, and especially members of the board of directors of the CIC would be very eager to root them out and take them to task.
 
You seem to be knowledgeable on the subject and interested in clearing up the matter.  Who IS this "other organization"???
 
Rather than coming here and anonymously telling us that we are wrong, without telling who this "other organization" is, why not find the facts, put them on the table, and then we can all move on to other things.
 
Until this is cleared up, we have a civic duty NOT to let it go away.  Surely, as a good citizen, you understand that, don't you?
 
Thanks in advance for your help.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet View Drop Down
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2000+ This all started with a post by Impala SS on 11 March 09 at 2:29PM. The post is located in the Middletown Info and Happenings section under the topic- " State of the City Address- Upbeat and Realistic" posted by me. Impala SS wanted some feedback on what this group was all about. Pacman cleaned it up on his post.
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Thanks VietVet -  but don't we need more than just posts on a blog? Aren't there tangible documents somewhere that states the agenda of MMF? If not, then where did this information come from?
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2000+ The only other thing I found that mentions Moving Middletown Forward was an old blog from the Dayton Daily News from Ed Richter titled " What's In A Name" dated 3/24/09. Mike had responded a couple of times to Richter's blog and asked Richter where this info. came from. No response from Richter apparently. Bet Richter knows who's connected with this group, but he ain't about to tell us as he wants to protect his sources. ?????
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 2000+ 2000+ wrote:

Can someone tell us where to find the original document that proclaimed that MMF is procuring political candidates to further their agenda? What facility can we go to and retrieve these hard-copy documents?
2000+: Go to this thread (also in the "City Council" category):
 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Thank you Mr. P - but can you tell me where this document originally came from and can I get a copy from whatever source you used?
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Originally posted by 2000+ 2000+ wrote:

Thank you Mr. P - but can you tell me where this document originally came from and can I get a copy from whatever source you used?
2000+:
I absolutely can--but unfortunatly, right now I will not.
 
All of Middletown will be shocked when that information is disclosed, but if I do so now, some "big fish" may escape.  We are continuing to try to tie down everyone involved, and we can't understand why City Hall isn't interested in clearing this up, can you?
 
I assure you that the source is credible, the document is genuine, and all that remains is to identify the rest of those behind "Middletown Moving Forward"...oops...I mean "MOVING Middletown Forward".  (Sorry, pelase excuse me, but it is just so easy to mix up those two names!)
 
Anyone having information would be wise to come forward now.
 
I would be especially grateful for any help that Alien could give us.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Points: 3483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 19 2009 at 12:45am

Mr. Alien:

While we await your reply with evidence of the identity of the "other" group, I would like to repost a portion of an item I Posted on 13 Mar 2009 at 6:13am on this forum under the thread:   Forum Home > Middletown Community > Middletown News, Info and Happenings > Topic: State Of The City Address-Upbeat/Realistic: 
 
I copied the following DIRECTLY from the MINUTES of the December 6, 2006 City Council meeting (here is the link: (http://www.ci.middletown.oh.us/docs/council/12122006_m.pdf ):
 
On Page one, under "City Council Interviews", there was the following heading:

"City Council members asked predetermined questions that were mailed to the candidates in advance of the interviews. Each candidate answered the following questions:"

The last question on that page was:
 

"●The business community hopes that the Middletown City Council will continue to give top priority to and maintain the momentum for economic development through its CIC, Middletown Moving Forward.

How will you support keeping the economic development strategy, Middletown Moving Forward, in place and with high priority?"

This was a question that the council and city manager at that time (which included many members of "Middletown MOVING Forward", CIC) decided to asked every single candidate being interviewed for an APPOINTMENT by that body to fill an empty council seat.
 
Doesn't this sound very much like an attempt to find someone to match the stated goals of "MOVING Middletown Forward", if indeed we do happen to find that they are one and the same?
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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