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Douglass Park Ribbon Cutting

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randy View Drop Down
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    Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 9:41am
The City of Middletown’s Division of Parks and Recreation would like to invite the community to the opening of the newest addition to one of our city parks.  The Ribbon Cutting Ceremony for the Frederick Douglass Park Splash Pad will be Thursday, June 25th at 11:30 a.m.

For more information on the ceremony see the full press release here  Middletown's Douglass Park
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote here&now Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 9:44am
That is great for the kids of that area to have something more to do in their park.

Now "If" the City takes care of the Splash Pad It will have been worth it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 1:49pm
I just left the ceremony at Douglass Park, It was pretty packed and the kids were very happy. I meet City Manager Judy Gilleland, Council Members,Leslie Ford ward 2 and Jim Armbruster ward 1
I took some nice pictures of the ribbon cutting. Look for them tomorrow.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 2:58pm
Wonderful to see this facility used extensively and be embraced by the area.
With splash pads at Douglass and Smith, along with Sunset, the community has excellent and much-needed water activities. Let's hope that we get the necessary turn-out to keep Sunset around for a long time, especially as the re-furbished park matures!
 
Pretty much Merrell Wood and AK to thank(along with many generous volunteer efforts).
Bright spots in the summer!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 3:27pm
randy- are you still in a good mood after meeting with Gilleland,Ford and Armbruster? Hasn't ruined you afternoon yet? If so, you have more patience than I do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 3:33pm
I agree Spider- thank you Merrell/volunteers for your group's effort and we all thank AK for their three year contribution. Now- given that, what will we do to raise the $50,000 for next year to keep Sunset open? Is it worth keeping open when there is such a small population of the people using it? Do we keep putting in $50 thou a year to benefit a small minority of citizens? Does it make economic sense in a cash strapped city?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 5:54pm
No vietvet It did ruin my day lol although I dont agree with their polices as people they are ok. And the Splash Pads are for the kids so...I am ok with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MerrellWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 25 2009 at 9:15pm

Vietvet,

 

The city is not being asked to spend $50.000 a year for the operational costs for Sunset.

As you may know those $'s have been supplied by AK after a 2-year campaign  by SOS who in addition raised $25.000  from the citizens of Middletown for its repair.

 

 The city cost over the last three years has been about $10.000 to $15.000 per year of which much was in-kind by city employees which the city put a dollar value to. SOS is working on raising additional operational funds for the next two years and hope to have success by the end of the year.

 

As to the #'s of users.... It depends very much on the weather. Clear & warm is much better than rainy and cold. So far it's been packed everyday. Its use has changed over the years. In the past, it was a destination for every economic level of citizens....today it has become more for those of modest means. That's who Middletown has become.

 

It's our last community pool and I and others think it is of great importance for the quality of life for all our citizens. Grab your suit and come on down.

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 7:13am
Merrell- I understand and appreciate your passion for providing a recreational destination for the citizens of this community. I also appreciate your SOS group's efforts to "keep Sunset alive" by doing the fundraiser activities. I just question spending any city money on a project like Sunset that benefits so few as to the percentage of city population. For a city that is economically strapped, I would be looking very closely at the costs of each city money outlay and examining the benefits for that money outlay. Concrete beneficial evidence would need to be presented to impress me on this. At this time, I couldn't justify city money being spent on this based on the number of people that Sunset serves. I would imagine that if you had 8000 people attend in a normal swimming season at Sunset, that at least 3000 are repeat customers. That cuts the percentage of the city population usage of the pool way down and makes it even harder to justify keeping it open. Just not enough interest from the citizens. On another note- what is the cost for water for the splash pad at Douglass Park for a normal swimming season? OR is there no cost? Backyard pools have taken a toll on community pool participation even at $2.50 a head. It's just more convenient to walk to the backyard ( or to the neighborhood backyard pool) than to drive to Sunset and one doesn't have to deal with strangers with foul mouths. Hey- I like Sunset too. Use to swim there when I was a kid some 50 years ago.- BUT- maybe the economics of the time is making the decision for us to close it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MerrellWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 9:56am
Vietvet
 
First of all, thank's for your reply.  I'll try to give you some feedback concerning some of your perceptions and possiibly questions about the splash pads and Sunset pool.
 
Smith Park's splash pad was paid for by private donations.  The city does have some expense (grass, litter, start up and close down) etc. ... but thy are minimal and no more than most of our 30+ parks. As to it's source and cost of water. It's source is a fire hydrent in the immediate area. If in some case the hydrent would be needed for an emergency it still has it's full capicity to serve it's normal function. The water come from our citys source and I'm told at no expense to the city. It's in operation approximently 4 month of the year, has regular daylight hour's and is turned off after dark.  Since it's water comes direct from a hydrent, it's not the warmest thing to enjoy ... but it's patrons (kids) don't seem to mind. It's drains directly into Smith pond and since the pond has a certain amount of evaporation and looses about 2 ft. of water during the summer, it keeps it at a desirable level for fishing etc. I don't know if you remember in the past when it's water level went way down and exposed it's ugly underwater stuff .... but keeping it at a normal level certainly adds to the attraction of the park. The total amount of water used is really quite little since it is mostly spray heads turned on by pressure pads when in use. No number's are available for it's attendence because it has no gate. It's one of the most obvious attractions in the park for kids that doesn't require a organized team etc.
 
The new Douglass pad is about 50% smaller, and did cost the city $'s to build. I think about a fifth of it's construction cost. Douglass pool had reached a point where it's primary user's were childern because the adults and teenagers had moved on to Sunset years ago. Cost more to build than the pad at Smith because it has a recycling water system. It uses a small amount of water and due to it's design is much warmer attraction to enjoy.  Gotta go right now ... but will be back later with info on Sunset and my solid rational for it's continued operation. Best to all.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 10:29am
As promised here are the pictures from yesterdays ribbon cutting

Middletown's Ribbon cutting At Douglass Park
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I'm back ....  About Sunset. We've already been through where the water comes from, however I further confermed with the city that our water comes directly from our own aquifer. One of the few found within a city's limit. Most have to buy theirs from another source. As to the number of patron's who are repeat customers. I made a point in a recent MJ column that I can't imagine the golfers at Weatherwax play just one round a year...and the city subsidises it operational cost for more than $200.000 + annually. Weatherwax is a regional golf course five miles out of town that serves middle to upper income adults and Sunset is a community pool in town that serves middle to lower income childern. As to the of repeat number of visiters per season, I can't imagine that anyone who uses either facility
just one time a year. I'd be curious to know the number of folks who visit Smith Park every year and what number are repeat visiters. The cost to the city is pretty much the same regardless of how many citizen visit more than once a year. I don't recall hearing  that rational being used to justify it's expense. As to the drive to Sunset, it's pretty much located right in the middle of the city and a lot of kids arrive by bus. I don't see backyard pools much of a factor because among other reasons, I don't remember wanting to just swim with my sister when all my friend were at the pool. Your right about the issue of behavior problems during the first season. It was addressed by both the guards who became more agressive inside the fence while the police did the same outside. Also there was a crusing issue but is now closely watched by the police as part of their patrol. Anyone identified as a trouble maker is ejected  and the more bothersome can be excluded for a longer period of time.... possibly for the season. Many of the guards are local kids. Adults have exclusive use of the pool for one hour before opening and swimming lessions are offered. Many feel it's much more important for a kid to know how to swim than to swing a nine iron. Again.... the city's actual cost for such a summer destination is extremly low and in my opinion is an important  part of the quality of life in our city. It certainly beats sitting home and playing video games. If I were moving to town with kids I would certainly count it as a plus for a reactional destination. The pool does need an overhaul but there's no reason the city shouldn't endorse a private sector effort to do so. The huge number of "baby boomer" are gone and to compare that era and those numbers to today simply does not reflect it's true value and importance to the community. Not every recreational destination should be or can be a direct profit center for the city and when the cost to provide such a facility is kept low, it may be one of the best example of getting the most "bang for the buck" we have. Best to all....Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 1:57pm
Thank you for the information Merrell. I mentioned the repeat customers because it does make a difference on how one looks at the pool usage. If there are 8000 individual people interested in using the pool, the citizen interest/ percentage looks a little different than if you tell me that 8000 people used the pool but 3000 were repeat visitors. The latter tells me that there is a lesser interest in the number of individuals. The numbers are skewed when comparing the two scenarios. The same goes for Weatherwax. If you tell me that 9000 golfers used the course over the summer, I may be impressed and say it is worthwhile to operate. But if you tell me that out of that 9000, 4000 were repeat visitors, that shows that there is more interest from fewer people using the facility. May not impress me enough to vote to keep it open. Learning to swim is a good thing to accomplish. No argument here. But we're talking about the cost from a poor city, to maintain a pool to teach a few kids to swim. It becomes an economic budgetary numbers game rather than a quality of life thing as you suggest. Even with the presence of cops/ pool personel, it still doesn't look good when trying to impress a person to take their family there. A precedent has been set, unfortunately. Why go through all the hassle when a person can take the family over to a friend's house with a pool and relax instead of preventing the kids from being bothered by "undesirables". No relaxation there for the parents. Disagree with the statement " not all recreational destinations should be or can be a direct profit center for the city" and " when the cost is kept low"- in a normal city, I would probably agree with you on this, but the people running this city have it so financially screwed up ( and in other ways too) that the pool MUST make money to justify it's existence. This city can't afford any luxuries and must be managed as if the leaders were "unemployed", monitoring every last dime. (They don't but they should be) Right now, we need "depression era" people running the city. They know how to pinch pennies having lived through that travesty. Moving to town comment- I've heard realtors say that attractions, when buying in a town, include shopping, commuter time to the job, good schools, location, tax rates, housing stock choices, closeness to more choices in bigger cities, etc, but rarely have I heard a realtor include a public pool as a big buying point for purchasing property in a certain location. Guess we can agree to disagree as the saying goes.---- but- that's ok too!    I vote we close Sunset and Weatherwax because they benefit but a small percentage of Middletown's population and start redirecting the money to the basics rather than the luxuries. JMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 3:13pm
considering the 1/2 mill proposed for the disfunctional bike path, the large sum for the "Welcome to Middletown" entrances and the hundred million blown destroying the area formerly known as downtown, the amnnual cost of keeping Sunset Pool going is a mere pittance and somewhat of a necessity.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MerrellWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 3:22pm
 
Vietvet,
Let's agree to disagree. Hope you can use some of the info to get a better handle on the particulars behind a few of our recreational facilities. Park board will review the numbers at the end of season and make a recommendation to council about Sunset's future. I'm sure we both can agree that we should support and promote the many assets our city enjoys while at the same time work to create new ones that will serve all of the citizens of our community. Best regards...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 3:58pm
In my view, this all just goes to show the poor performance of prioritizing dollars by City Hall!  Which is more important:  A few hundred thousand for a bike path or, say, $15K for a pool?  Where does a couple hundred grand for golf per year fit in?  Are ANY of these items more important than infrastructure or public safety?
 
We must NOT look at these items individually!!  If we do, they are all basically "good" things so how can we say "NO!"?  Yet, if we look at the grand scheme of things and consider them as "either / or" choices" versus, say, fire protection or police protection or similar items, how can we say "yes"?
 
These are difficult choices, but they must be made, and they must be made RESPONSIBLY, even if the "correct" choices are unpopular choices.
 
If one would ask one's children whether the family should go to Disney world next month, or pay the mortgage, I think that we all know what the most popular chice would be.  Which would be the RESPONSIBLE choice?
 
In my view, providing a place to swim for those children who cannot afford the existing local choices is the purview of charitable organizations or service groups.
 
This is a sad case, and I wish that it were not so, but it is what it is, and it is time to face it.
 
Of course NONE of the above is as important as holding a SECOND "ribbon-cutting ceremony" for those politicians that may have missed the first one.  Disapprove
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 7:52pm
I have to agree with Vet and Mike on this one.  I have never heard of a Pool that can be used only two months of the Year being a Quality of Life issue that would prevent someone from buying a house in Middletown.  Lots of other issues might but not having a pool is not one of them.
 
I have lived from Maine to Florida to California and Europe and I have never bought a house where a Public Pool was a top 10 factor or even a factor I considered.  I don't know maybe there is something in the Ohio water, that makes a pool a must have.
 
I am sure there are some real estate agents on here do people really ask for a Public Pool and is that a major consideration in their choice of a home?
When I moved here it was of no interest to me whether there was a pool much less where it was.
 
If the City was doing fine financially then having and maintaining a pool is a great bonus for the residents.  But when the City is in the Financial mess that it is and we can't even maintain the roadways we have to prioritize what is important, having a pool at this time is a low priority for many citizens I would suggest.
 
When I moved here my son could not swim he learned when he joined the Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts and learned at the Downtown Y for about $7.00.  Learning to swim is really a minor issue if you want your child to swim you will find a way to do it.
 
If the Ak money is gone after this year how much money will have to be raised for next year? $50-60K.  
 
I also have to agree with the fact that over a 60+/- day period only 7-8,000 residents using it is a small percentage of the citizens and yet much time and effort has been spent on the Pool issue for the 5-6 years I have been here. 
 
On another note West Chester has no Public Pool and yet they seem to be a booming community that doesn't miss this quality of life issue that we seem to constantly year after year spend a tremendous amount of resources on.
 
If money was plentiful then have a pool otherwise the effort put into just a 2 month recreational activity is to much.
 
Having a Golf Course is also a nice amenity but it should be sold it can't pay its way or use the land for a more productive use.  We are  talking $250-300K a year for these two amenities alone.
 
Merrel is it predicted that the Splash pads will cause a decline in Pool use this year?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MerrellWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 26 2009 at 10:01pm
Pacman,
 
As I said to Vietvet... let's agree to disagree.   There are many wonderful assets in Middletown and I feel strongly a pool should continue to be one of them.
 
Concerning  the splash pads, I don't expect any drop in pool attendence.  
The are used by very young childern who mostly don't swim yet. 
 
Best regards......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2009 at 7:25am
Merrell how much money will have to be raised next year considering the AK money is gone after this year?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MerrellWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2009 at 10:42am
Pretty much the same as this year... $50.000 private sector funding for approx. 9 weeks....
$10.000 annual city subsidy. 63 day season... approx. $160.00 per day public funds. I know it's fuzzy math but please don't pick it to death. I'm sure yours will be more percise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pacman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 27 2009 at 10:54am
What fuzzy math I estimated in my post above about $50-60k you say about $60K sounds like we are pretty much on the same page with that figure.
 
Any funds from the operation of the Pool, admission fees etc. where do those funds go and roughly how much is collected each year, just roughly?
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