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Sorg Mansion

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Always-dream View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Always-dream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 6:43pm
hes not buying it that i know of because myself and business partner are buying it
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 6:57pm
I heard it is going to be a micro brewery. Are you the one doing that? That would be good for the area. I also heard it was going to be a bed and breakfast.
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Always-dream View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Always-dream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 7:05pm
It's going to be Neither
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 7:11pm
Is it going to be a house again or apartments or a business?
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Always-dream View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Always-dream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 7:16pm
no apartments for sure and the rest will be in the press release
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 7:19pm
When is the press release? You must be rich. Good luck with the project. I heard the environmental issues in the old gas plant in the carriage house were a $500,000 clean up. Are you going to have the house open for the 2010 South Main Christmas Tour?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Always-dream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 7:24pm
we have a staff of experts, the property will be grand and shine again and not sure if it will be open to the public or not
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Rhodes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 7:30pm
How many projects like this have you done before? Are you doing this project with money out of your pockets or are the accusations true that you and your partner are using public funds (aka our tax dollars)? It seems to have upset a few people on this board that whoever is buying the Sorg is trying to do it with our tax dollars.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 18 2010 at 8:56pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-: EN-US; mso-fareast-: EN-US; mso-bidi-: AR-SA">swohio
I really resent your statement.
If it wasn't for Harry it wouldn't be standing at all.
He restored and saved many old houses and buildings in this town.

Also remember that Harry told the City NOT to put the roof on downtown.
</SPAN>


You are entitled to your opinion. But I'd hardly say Harry "restored" anything. Save, sure. Restore. Not so much.

It's also my understanding the reason Elder-Beerman didn't locate in the City Centre Mall was because of Harry.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 19 2010 at 6:24pm

I just cannot for the life of me understand the attitude of some of you “restorationists“.

I love history myself, and I try to learn from it. I have actually given my time, knowledge, effort, sweat, and money to restoration and preservation projects in the past, but not just so I could boast about it. That is why you’ve never known it until now.

What I cannot understand is why you expect every other person in the world to put YOUR desire ahead of all other things, including their very own survival!!! That is narcissism at its worst!!!

How can you possibly believe that every businessperson on the planet goes into business only to serve YOUR desires at no cost to you??? Why should other people risk their sweat and treasure only to fulfill YOUR fantasies whenever you are too incompetent to fulfill them for yourself, disregard any opportunity for profit or vision of his own???

Why is it that you try to twist logic, and the very principles of democracy, into such a tangle weave as to believe that it is right to confiscate tax money from the working poor solely so that YOU can live YOUR royal dreams???

Now, if someone of credibility actually came forward, with a plan, and explained WHY they thought that a particular property was actually of historical significance, how its restoration and preservation would benefit the entire community, with a plausible, detailed estimate of how much the entire project would actually cost, and reveal not only the schedule, cash flow projections, critical personnel, but also the identities of ALL parties involved, that would be a different story.

But that never seems to happen, especially here in Middletown, does it???

Take this Sorg case. What do we have??? Some unknown, part-time waiter that allegedly couldn’t get an auto loan without falsifying documents (which he didn’t seem to mind to do), who expects us to believe that he got financing all by himself for several hundred thousand dollars for a property with monthly utilities that would disqualify someone making $75K/year, and implying that he has a “staff of experts” ready to do a million dollar restoration that will draw people from all over the known universe to save Middletown--and all of this because :

he’s “been hearing some really good Things about the Sorg Mansion”!!!

What a flimsy foundation to build a case upon!!!
 
Now, I don’t know if that wonderful high-speed train will ever come to Middletown, but it sounds as if one HUGE TRAIN WRECK is already on the way!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Always-dream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 12:58am
So it's ok if I live off Food stamps and drive a Caddy and get my nails done and only wear the best clothes and live off the system, but to Apply for Grants That are out there im condemned ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viper771 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 2:36am

I would like to get my house on the historic register one day after I finish restoring it. I don't see anything wrong with applying for a historic house grant. I would do it too. A lot of people do it. It has been done for quite a while.

I think more money comes out of our taxes paying for illegal immigrants than saving old houses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 6:06am
I think anyone against grants is probably also against living off the government in any form, especially getting your nails done. If you are applying for grants to save a house that probably means you can't afford it. If you can't afford it without grants, then maybe you have no business buying it. When you come into a city that you are not from, buy one of the most well known homes in town that was hogged by Harry Finkelman for over 60 years, trying to get free money to fix it up because you can't afford to do it on your own, then you shouldn't be surprised that you have opened a can of worms.

I don't have a problem with low or no interest historic loans, but I do have a problem with welfare grants (TAX DOLLARS) going to someone for their own private benefit. Grant money should be for public use, not a playhouse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 9:38am
Amen Rhodes
Grant funding should go to the best-intentioned "in need" situations, not to the convenient self-serving"want" situations. Haven't we learned enough from the failed Sorg Opera House property transfer?
 
Grant funding is hardly "free money" as many think.
As far as tax payers are concerned, the well is bone dry. There IS NO REAL MONEY.
We must use what is available very wisely, and make sure that it goes to the most needy and productive.
Deficit spending must stop, and the painful but proper cuts MUST be made. The golden goose(parachute) days are over.
 
IMO the Sorg Mansion is probably not worth the restoration expense.
However if someone can pull it off on their own dime, it would be very interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 11:37am
Originally posted by Always-dream Always-dream wrote:

So it's ok if I live off Food stamps and drive a Caddy and get my nails done and only wear the best clothes and live off the system, but to Apply for Grants That are out there im condemned ?

I presume that you are replying to me, so I will gladly respond. However, first I politely suggest that you consider a remedial “reading comprehension” course or two, since nowhere in my post did I reference any of the circumstances that you mention.

That aside, let me try to make the following perfectly clear:

  1. I did not “condemn” you (or anyone else, for that matter). That is between you and your God, Whoever/whatever you perceive Him/Her/it to be.
  2. If you live on food stamps but drive a luxury car, get your nails done regularly, wear only the best clothes, and live off “the system”, I consider that wrong, grossly unfair to the rest of society and especially to the working poor who do NOT abuse “the system”, and a circumstance that should not only be rectified at the earliest possible opportunity, but also be punished to the full extent of the law.
  3. You should be allowed to “apply for” anything that you care to “apply for”, but you should hardly be “approved” for anything close to what I’ve described in my preceding post. If you are approved, either the flaws in the process should be remedied or you should be prosecuted for fraud (whichever is applicable).

Now, if any of this remains unclear to you, please refer to same by number so I don’t have to bore everyone by going through every point while I try to find room for some reason within your narrow, selfish mind.

Try to be guided by this simple philosophy: Neither I, nor the wealthiest person in town, nor the working poor, nor anyone else in the world, should be expected to furnish to you the funds to fulfill every fantasy that you wish to live. We should especially not be FORCED to do so. The world does not owe you a living.

None of that is, as you so simply state, “OK”!

None of the above, is a “condemnation”. You asked if I thought it was OK, I told you.

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 11:53am
Originally posted by viper771 viper771 wrote:

I would like to get my house on the historic register one day after I finish restoring it. I don't see anything wrong with applying for a historic house grant. I would do it too. A lot of people do it. It has been done for quite a while.

I think more money comes out of our taxes paying for illegal immigrants than saving old houses.

Viper,

I can sincerely state that: “If YOU want to get YOUR house on the historic register one day after YOU finish restoring it, I don't see anything wrong with that either!!!” In fact, I would applaud your effort and would be happy to offer my humble assistance to the best of my ability. (Some people familiar with the facts, in this nation and in other nations, do seem to believe that I have some knowledge of construction methods, techniques, and problem solving.) I probably even have some tools that I would be willing to loan to you, if I can remember who I have last loaned them to, and am able to retrieve them.

There was a time, not too long ago, that I might even have donated materials, or offered an interest-free (or very low-interest) loan. Unfortunately, the last few years have been as financially hurtful to me as to so many others in our nation, so I am no longer willing to offer financial assistance in cases of “want” rather than “need”.

As to some other things you mentioned, I guess we must all follow our own conscience. There are many things that “a lot of people” choose to do. Some, I also choose to do, while others, I choose not do. Being “legal” does not always make something “right”, nor does being “illegal” make it “wrong”, at least in my view. Consider things like slavery, which was once legal in this country; the 70 mph interstate speed limit, which was legal one day, illegal the very next, and then legal again after another arbitrary date, all on the very same stretches of highways in some states.

I have similar views on “a lot of people do it” and “it has been done for quite a while”, also. Once again, consider slavery, speed limits, nuclear power plants, lead-containing paint, the death penalty, stem cell research, etc. These are all things that not only “a lot of people do” or “a lot of people have done for quite a while” but also may or may not be legal depending upon location on the earth, point in history (or in the future), or present regime of government.

Lastly, I have no idea what illegal immigrants have to do with any of this, but we probably agree in principle. Yes, I also think that “…more money comes out of our taxes paying for illegal immigrants than saving old houses.” I also believe that our tax money should not be used for either. Immigrants should come to America legally. Houses, both old and new, should be built, purchased, and maintained by their owners! If the “owner” happens to be a “foundation” and that foundation does its own fundraising, so be it!

However, I am also nearly positive that more money comes out of our taxes paying for space exploration than saving old houses. In both cases, we are NOT comparing apples-to-apples, so whether or not I am “for” or “against” the first, has nothing to do with whether I am “for” or “against” the second.

Here’s a hypothetical question:

“Is Bill Gates’ house any less historic than Paul Sorg’s? If not, why not?” “If so, then why aren’t we using tax money to maintain the Gates Mansion?”

So, at least in my view:

Mt. Vernon? Absolutely!

Monticello? Of course!

Mike Presta’s house? H*ll no!!! NEVER!!! NO WAY!!!

Bill Gates Shack? NOPE!

Sorg Mansion? Sorry!

Those are my views!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 21 2010 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by spiderjohn spiderjohn wrote:

Amen Rhodes
Grant funding should go to the best-intentioned "in need" situations, not to the convenient self-serving"want" situations. Hopefully the home wo't be sold to this individual. Haven't we learned enough from the failed Sorg Opera House property transfer?
 
Grant funding is hardly "free money" as many think.
As far as tax payers are concerned, the well is bone dry. The IS NO REAL MONEY.
We must use what is available very wisely, and make sure that it goes to the most needy and productive.
 
IMO the Sorg Mansion is probably not worth the restoration expense.
However if someone can pull it off on their own dime, it would be very interesting.
Spider,
So, you like Grant, but why are you against Lee? If it is okay for me to drive an old Licoln on Rhodes that's OK, but if I can apply for a loan using just a little mistaken info and get my hands on a Mercedes you and the old retired lady at WalMart should have to tote the rest of my note for a new Mercedes for my to drive on Laynes, shouldn't you? Confused Confused
 
It is to free!  I shouldn't have to pay! I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove I did it.Pinch Disapprove
 
It is, too, free if I don't pay for it  "THEY" pay for it and then it's free!  You know, THEY, THEY!!!  THEY have all kinds of money, so why should I pay for anything? Wacko
 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lrisner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2010 at 4:41pm
I oppose Grants in principal, but as long as it is the Law I blame no one for using them.

We need to change the Law!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 22 2010 at 6:24pm
Just like welfare is meant to help those in need, not a way to live off the government, I say the same thing for grants. Anyone using grant money for their "wish list" is abusing what grants are meant to do. It doesn't make it illegal to find loopholes or loose language in a program, but it doesn't make it right to take advantage of poorly written rules when it comes to the public's tax dollars. Just like it isn't right to abuse the welfare program and turn it into a way of life.

I don't know what the plans are for the Sorg Mansion. The buyer posting on here hasn't said much except that we should wait for a press release. I noticed he's been called out for being a part-time waiter and he's yet to deny that. I personally do not care what he does for a living, but it is odd that it's been for sale for over a year and nobody of any great business expertise has found a way to make it a profitable venture, but this part-time waiter has.

I think Sorg Opera has been in foreclosure a few times now since it was bought from the Finkelmans. Each time they manage to pull it out, but it appears they are on thin ice financially. I see the same fate for Sorg Mansion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mihousenut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 23 2010 at 9:10am
When I looked at the Sorg Mansion to purchase, with the intent of restoring the property, and starting and running a bed and breakfast(I currently have a b&b right now)  I could not find a plausible way to do that.  To make it profitable, with some type of end escape when retiring that  have enough value in the business to get out of it what is required to make it an Inn in the first place.  Public monies, there are none, well, a facade grant from the city, which is a drop in the bucket, but otherwise, nothing is available, historic restoration tax credits are almost nonexistant, with the smallest project ever approved being $800,000, most tax credits were for 5 million and up, so little help to the small people.  So I walked away....
 
Anyone with the means to do the Sorg, kudos to them, you should applaud them and offer support, even if just an atta-boy, as this mansion needs alot of tlc...... this coming from someone who went over the place with a fine toothed comb.      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viper771 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 23 2010 at 4:27pm
That what I figure as well.. It is a Middletown landmark and has been since it went up. I'd give support to anyone trying it fix up the older part of Middletown :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhodes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 23 2010 at 4:46pm
I would give anyone support as well, but this situation is like giving an ant encouragement that he really can move that rubber tree plant.

I just read on the Sorg Mansion Facebook page that the buyer is promoting the Sorg Mansion on Martha Stewart Weddings' Facebook page. Does this mean the Sorg Mansion will be a wedding hall? Not that original of an idea and it seems to me that Middletown already has many wedding party rooms. Manchester Hotel, BeauVerre, many historic churches, American Legion, K of C Hall, and of course the dirty VFW. I didn't realize there was that much wedding business in the Middletown area to support another venue.

So this is the big exciting news that's supposed to bring people to downtown Middletown?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TudorBrown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 24 2010 at 12:59pm
The Mansion and lot appear to be vacant now.  No more cars parked outside, everything looks like it has been locked up.  "No Trespassing" signs on all the entrances.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viper771 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun 24 2010 at 10:45pm
Well getting all the druggies out of the Sorg is a start. You won't hear me complain about that :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote angelababy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 31 2010 at 9:51pm
Way to connect the pieces.  I would love to see inside this place.  
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