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When does it get better?

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Smartman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 7:37pm
Oh and Vrt, you seem to have all the time in the world to monitor this board. Guess too bust to get involved!!
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tomahawk35 View Drop Down
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Location: Middletown
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomahawk35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 16 2010 at 11:04pm
When did Franklin become affluent"
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Joined: May 15 2008
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 6:49am
A typical overstatement from Smartman.

"but I guess in your warped sense of reality if we dont have 30 out of 30 tomorrow we are failing" Not even close, bud. But I do expect better than what we are getting now.

"Same ole same old Vet"- you don't change much either Smartman. None of us do in our ideas and thinking, now do we? I would imagine we will always be on opposite sides of the fence on this issue.

No excuses from me. Don't need to make 'em. It's the schools and the supporters like you who keep making the excuses as to why, once again, they didn't show some progress. The supporters are the ones who seem to encourage the REPORTED stagnation within this school system. Numbers don't lie. Look at the chart at the beginning of this subject. What do you see about the Middletown system? I had nothing to do with the bottom dwelling numbers Smartman. The people in the school system, WHO ARE ACCOUNTABLE for getting the job done (that's what they're paid to do- educate) are responsible, just like I'm responsible for my little corner of the world in testing and you are responsible for whatever it is you do for a living. Do you deny the results on the chart referred in this paragraph and will you continue to make excuses, as the school people do, as to why they are like that year after year? What is the purpose of continually making excuses. Just change the dam program if the current one isn't producing improved results. Logical?

Mercy Smartman, I didn't say anything about achieving 30 out of 30 tomorrow did I? Reread the post. I said I am tired of waiting for many years with the school district stuck at 5 of 30. Would like to see some progress.....any progress toward number 6 without having to wait another 5 years or so. Is that too much to expect?

As to your comment about having ample time on this site, if you knew what kind of job I had you might understand how it worked. I do lab testing. There are times when you must wait for the test machines to test the samples. That takes time depending on the test being done. In that waiting time, I have time to check and comment on this site, then, it's back to testing. Just so you understand I don't sit by the computer all day monitoring this site on a constant basis. I arrive an hour and a half before anyone else gets here just to do what I am doing now. It's on my own time now.

As to your comment about what a great parent I am. How in the hell do you know what kind of parent I am. My "school days" parenting is long over with. My son is out working. He has a good work ethic. Doesn't call off all the time and volunteers to go in when someone doesn't show. I'd say that's a good start on a decent working attitude. Better than alot of young people have nowadays.

I would love to teach some kids to read, if that's ok with you. Please advise on the time I would have to do this as I go to work at 5:15AM, return to Middletown at 4:45PM, immediately start taking care of my wife who is wheelchair bound until we both turn in around 9 to 10PM. That leaves 10PM to 5AM to get broken interrupted sleep until I get up and do it all over again. Weekends- perhaps I would have time to read to the kids. Are they available on weekends?

Perhaps it would have been helpful to you to have understood my situation before you started your criticism of my time to volunteer. You don't have a clue what it takes to take care of a stroke victim. Or maybe you do if you've been in my situation. Don't know. Have a good day.
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Smartman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 7:05am
Wow, looks like I struck a nerve! Vet I do understand what it takes to care for someone who is wheelchair bound. No attack there from me. My point is constant complaining and finger pointing never fixes anything. Fine, I understand you have no time to volunteer, so stop finding fault with everything about the schools. There is a lot of positives going on a small scale, thats how it starts. Good things are going to start coming out of the schools, just watch. But I'm sure that when you are narrow minded and have tunnel vision and live in the past you will never see it. Have a great day!
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 7:19am
Narrow minded, tunnel vision, living in the past-(you need to add stubborn and not gullible to the list too) Yep, probably all of those. As opposed to swallowing all the excuses the school system uses to make believers out of the rose-colored glasses folks.

Now, did you have a chance to look at the chart at the beginning of this subject? If so, how do you explain the poor performance on this chart and the previous charts which gave the same results from years gone by?

I'll wait and be looking for the "positives going on a small scale" and the "good things that are going to start coming out of the schools". Been waiting and looking for those for 30 years. I can wait a little longer. I might not recognize the "good things" though as I am just a narrow minded, tunnel-visioned old fart living in the past to those who believe what the schools are shoveling. Help me, Smartman, and point out when the changes happen. Some of us may not be able to recognize the changes as they may be too subtle to see, or worse yet, may not be effective at all.

Oh, and one more thing- what does volunteering have to do with finding fault with the schools? Is there a requirement that if you don't volunteer, you can't speak ill of the schools? You must participate before you can criticize? We all "participate" as we send 85% of our property tax money to the schools. That alone, gives everyone a VESTED interest in saying their piece, pro and con, about the schools. If I pay, I get to complain if I wish. Fair enough, Smartman?
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Smartman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smartman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 7:48am
OK Vet, we can agree to disagree! When good things happen I will make sure you are the first to know about it!!! Thumbs%20Up
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 17 2010 at 1:45pm
hesitant to jump in the middle of a Vet vs.Smartman discussion, HOWEVER:
 
Recently I have had opportunity to visit Rosa Parks, Wildwood, Mayfield and MHS.
I have yet to find a teacher or administrator in any of those facilities that was not professional or did not care anout the job/students, though I am sure that there are some of those out there.
 
The BOE members obviously all care, since they pretty much serve without compensation.
Changing or terminating these groups can only be a successful option if you have better staff to bring in.
Is it out there? If so--where?
Why would they come here for less than considerably more compensation?
 
Vet--we all could help more than we do currently.
That alone wouldn't change the big picture that much.
It still comes down to putting the students in the buildings on an everyday basis, and they must show up prepared/motivated to do their best for no one but themselves.
 
It is like the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland.
The answer to all problems and inconveniences is not "Off with their head!".
 
To many working class manufacturing-based local families, education was not the top priority when the well-compensated factory jobs were available. Those jobs are long gone now, and will most likely never return. We have a couple generations of parents who still haven't reacted properly, and we may not be able to change that mind set. As of now(and for a while), there is no safety net for those who don't take full advantage of the educational opportunities available. There ARE plenty of quality students currently in the system who are making the most of their opportunities. Those students will turn out just fine.
 
The area has changed.
Time for those resistant to change for the better with the area.
Butler Tech, Cincy St. and MU-M are wonderful opportunities IF you can make it to that level.
We all went through the system at one time.
It really wasn't that difficult, and if students would apply themselves properly, they would find that it is no more difficult today.
 
Vet--I realize that my posts haven't solved your primary concerns.
I share your concerns, and you know that.
I don't have any quick fix or answer.
Just my take on the situation.
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 6:59am
Thank you Spider. Appreciate your comments as I do Smartman's stance on education in town. The fact is that we citizens, the school board, the school admin. and the teachers have all identified the problems many years ago. We all agree that the demographics have changed in this town. The good jobs are gone. Good parents who value education seem to be thinning. There are more low income families living in town now than before and those low income families seem to place little to no value on having their children receive a good education (or care whether they are educated at all in some cases). Just don't understand why, if we have identified the problems years ago, is it taking so long to find even one solution to solve them? Surely other cities have these same problems. Surely there is a town out there someplace that has found something that works to improve the situation.

How about having the super and other school people, jump in a car, and travel to a town, similar to Midd., that has a better track record in achievement and talking to those people about how they improved their situation, with the discussion centered around similar demograhics, similar low income issues, similar non-parental involvement, similar crime, truancy and social issues and make an attempt to implement those successes here? Or is that idea too simple in nature and not a good starting point? Has this ever been tried by our school system...ie... to emulate the success of a comparable district? What is so taboo about asking for some advice from a more successful school system?
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squeemy View Drop Down
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Joined: Dec 23 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squeemy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov 18 2010 at 3:48pm
those poor educators - everyone is an expert - myself included.

here's a little something from a former teacher, John Gatto. does his perspective resonate with any of you?

"The Six Lesson School Teacher

The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong." I don't know who decides that my kids belong there but that's not my business. The children are numbered so that if any get away they can be returned to the right class.

The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch. I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons, jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation, competing vigorously with each other for my favor. But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station. Nothing important is ever finished in my class, nor in any other class I know of.

The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command. Rights may be granted or withheld, by authority, without appeal. As a schoolteacher I intervene in many personal decisions, issuing a Pass for those I deem legitimate, or initiating a disciplinary confrontation for behavior that threatens my control. My judgments come thick and fast, because individuality is trying constantly to assert itself in my classroom. Individuality is a curse to all systems of classification, a contradiction of class theory.

The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study. (Rather, I enforce decisions transmitted by the people who pay me). This power lets me separate good kids from bad kids instantly. Good kids do the tasks I appoint with a minimum of conflict and a decent show of enthusiasm. Of the millions of things of value to learn, I decide what few we have time for. The choices are mine. Curiosity has no important place in my work, only conformity.

In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth. My kids are constantly evaluated and judged. A monthly report, impressive in its precision, is sent into students' homes to spread approval or to mark exactly -- down to a single percentage point -- how dissatisfied with their children parents should be.

In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched. I keep each student under constant surveillance and so do my colleagues. There are no private spaces for children; there is no private time. Class change lasts 300 seconds to keep promiscuous fraternization at low levels. Students are encouraged to tattle on each other, even to tattle on their parents. Of course I encourage parents to file their own child's waywardness, too.

I assign "homework" so that this surveillance extends into the household, where students might otherwise use the time to learn something unauthorized, perhaps from a father or mother, or by apprenticing to some wiser person in the neighborhood.

The lesson of constant surveillance is that no one can be trusted, that privacy is not legitimate. Surveillance is an ancient urgency among certain influential thinkers; it was a central prescription set down by Calvin in the Institutes, by Plato in the Republic, by Hobbes, by Comte, by Francis Bacon. All these childless men discovered the same thing: Children must be closely watched if you want to keep a society under central control."
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cooan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cooan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 16 2012 at 1:17am
There really have been a lot of talk concerning the issue though very little has been done to seek after how things are going to turn for the better at least in the coming years.  A lot of the upper tier lists are blaming the students for the poor showing but they are not the only ones to blame as this is very well an avenue in need of both parties in order to work properly.
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