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Do the math

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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Do the math
    Posted: Jan 01 2011 at 11:16pm

Do the math!!!

The very first resolution of year 2011 is not what it appears to be!!!

It appears to simply be an appropriation to fund the remediation of a brownfield site for economic development in the downtown area--something which we should all support--correct???

Well, do the math!!!

$2,002,817 for the implementation of this project was appropriated in 2010. The ATC Associates, Inc. contract ($118,582.50) and the Evans Landscaping, Inc. contract ($609,550) total $728,132. If one deducts this total from last year’s appropriation that leaves $1,274,685.

Now, if the “Wellfield Protection Fund” was the correct fund for this work, and there are more contracts to be let to complete this work, why isn’t the “Wellfield Protection Fund” the correct place for these funds to remain???

Perhaps there is a clue in the last line of Section One of this Resolution R2011-01:

TOTAL EMPLOYEE BENEFIT FUND                 $1,274,685.00”

But WHY would City Hall’s employee benefit fund possibly need over $1.27 MILLION to complete the remediation of this FIVE acre plot???

Also, according to the “Conformity to City Policy” portion of the staff report:

This project is consistent with the City’s 2005 Master Plan and falls under Objective ED2:

“Establish an economic development entity with the authority and accountability to effectively attract and retain jobs and businesses”.

Well, here is my view: This piece of ground is far too near to the sacred land of Sorg Mansion and the gateway to the Holy Land of South Main Street for Kohler, Mulligan and company to EVER allow ANY sort of industrial or commercial development (other than “olde tyme” stuff) see the light of day!!! And I am willing to back up my stance with a substantial wager.

Any takers???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2011 at 6:08pm

I am flabbergasted that no one else has commented on RESOLUTION NO. R2011- 01.

According to the staff report, the PURPOSE of this resolution is “To re-appropriate $1,274,685 FROM the wellfields account number 546.990.54502”.

According to the actual Resolution, the transfer is “TO: Accounts of 990 (546.990.54502) $1,274,685.00” and “FROM: Unappropriated Wellfield Protection Fund”.

So which is it??? Is the $1.27 MILLION coming FROM account 546.990.54502** as the staff report says, or going TO account 546.990.54502** as the Resolution dictates???

Also, the staff report states that the purpose is “To re-appropriate”. Money cannot be “re-appropriated” unless it has first been “appropriated”, and we note under “Background and Findings” in the staff report that “The funds ($2,002,817) for the grant implementation were appropriated in 2010.”

So what is actually happening here???

Is this $1.27 MILLION a “re-appropriation” of funds from 2010??? Or is it an appropriation of “Unappropriated Wellfield Protection Funds”???

Is the money COMING from 546.990.54502 or GOING to 546.990.54502???

Is the money COMING from the Wellfield Protection Fund and GOING to the Employee Benefit Fund???

Will anyone on City Council ask from where this money is COMING and where it is GOING???

Does anyone at City Hall know if they are COMING or GOING???

**Last digit of account number corrected at 3:40 am on 01/04/2011, thanks to Hermes finding my error!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Richard Saunders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2011 at 7:43pm

Isn't the Wellfield Protection Fund funded, at least partially, by fees added to our water bills?

If so, why is that money going to the Employees' Benefits Fund? 
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Paul Nagy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Nagy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2011 at 8:22pm
     Let's see.......Taking money from the water funds received from taxpayers and putting it into the Empoyees Benefit Fund. We have been told (above our objections through the years) that money can't be taken from one fund and put into another unless its in the General fund. Well Council, do you have the moral courage to face and declare the appearance of impropriety on this one.
 
     If not, how about the EXTRA taxpayer money its going to take for the Vedin Center,  for more renovations than anticipated, that is coming from the taxpayers and which is not submitted for public bids but is given to Mr. Verdin's family for rehab work? The Crews. So much for nepotism.
 
     What about the funding dollars for the demolition of the papermill and the EPA requirements for the ground clean-up? This property, you know, will become nothing but green space to protect council member's and administration's downtown properties. It is not for future business development and we all know it. None in their right mind would put a business on it in that location and take the risk of the contamination (even if its cleaned up). Does it not make a difference that the city is broke? Funding for a project like this is certainly out of place at this time.
 
       Mr. Becker is wrong when he says, "Right now we are o.k." We are not o.k.  We still need streets paved.  We need more fire and police protection while crime is increasing (while controlling runaway salaries, benefits and pensions). We need businesses all over town (not just downtown) and investments in such. We need to clean up our financial affairs and make them more transparent.  We need the Art Center and we need Cincy State College, but we need them on a real business basis, with all due diligence done and numbers crunched and not on a high risk basis as we are doing. We need to get sincere about our money and where it goes. Its time to be held accountable. We cannot continue to ignore the situation we have in Middletown and all around us. We need to really get business friendly and quit funding special interests all of the time.
 
        Council, STAND UP FOR THE PEOPLE AND THE CITY, this recession is far from over. Be responsible! Everyone will stand behind you when you are except for those who have ulterior motives and interests. Your decisions hurt or help a lot of ordinary people.
  
         Paul Nagy
       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2011 at 10:40pm
  Mike you have two different sets of account numbers : 546.990.54502/546.990.54505
was that a typo on your part or a typo from the city ??
 
No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 03 2011 at 11:00pm
A perfect example of how a little information in the hands of someone that doesn't understand what they are doing and has a strong tendency to look for conspiracy can be so wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 3:39am
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:

  Mike you have two different sets of account numbers : 546.990.54502/546.990.54505
was that a typo on your part or a typo from the city ??
 
Hermes,
Thank you for catching my error.  It was a typo on MY PART!!!  If one examines the Workbook sections relevant to Resolution R2011- 01, one will find NO references to account number 546.990.54505, only references to account 546.990.54502, both TO and FROM for these funds, exactly as I have described.  I will amend my earlier post (in RED, so it is clear that I am correcting an error) thanks to your calling it to my attention!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 3:42am
Originally posted by Sappy Sappy wrote:

A perfect example of how a little information in the hands of someone that doesn't understand what they are doing and has a strong tendency to look for conspiracy can be so wrong.
No, Sappy, it is simply a perfect example of an old man with less than stellar eyesight, as well as less than stellar typing skills, making an honest mistake.
 
By the way, I like your user name.  It seems to suit you perfectly!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 3:58am
Originally posted by Richard Saunders Richard Saunders wrote:

Isn't the Wellfield Protection Fund funded, at least partially, by fees added to our water bills?

If so, why is that money going to the Employees' Benefits Fund? 
Mr. Saunders,
Fair questions!!!  If one checks one's monthly water bill, one would find that there is (at least on mine) $0.50 per month added for "Well Head Protection".  I have no idea how much may be added to commercial or industrial users' bills for this item.
 
Since I think there are about 30,000 residential users, for residential users only this would appear to amount to about $180,000 per year.
 
Would we be correct in assuming that this is one of those untouchable "enterprise funds"???  I don't know.  Perhaps Mr. Carolus knows.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 2:41pm
Mike
I checked the resolution you are referring to on the City website, my bet is a drafting error my the Les Landon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Sappy Sappy wrote:

Mike
I checked the resolution you are referring to on the City website, my bet is a drafting error my the Les Landon.
I could make some snide remark such as: "A perfect example of how a keyboard in the hands of someone that doesn't understand what they are doing and has a strong tendency to to be a sap can be so wrong." but I won't.
 
Ooops, I just did, didn't I???
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 7:52pm

Tonight’s explanation of this item was bogus, in my opinion!!!

It still was NOT explained why this money had to be transferred “FROM the wellfields account number 546.990.54502”, according to the staff report, “TO: Accounts of 990 (546.990.54502) $1,274,685.00”, according to the resolution!!!

There is simply NO GOOD REASON to transfer funds out of and into the same account!!!

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

...

Well, here is my view: This piece of ground is far too near to the sacred land of Sorg Mansion and the gateway to the Holy Land of South Main Street for Kohler, Mulligan and company to EVER allow ANY sort of industrial or commercial development (other than “olde tyme” stuff) see the light of day!!! And I am willing to back up my stance with a substantial wager.

Any takers???
Well, It's a good thing that no one took my offer of a wager!!!
We heard tonight that there are apparently plans for some sort of "lagoon" on this site!!!   Sounds like this will make for a beautiful amenity for a GREEN SPACE, but certainly will diminish the site's usefulness as an industrial/commercial development opportunity!!!
 
And of course once this becomes a "wetlands", it will take an act of God to ever develop it.  This sounds like another one of Marty's "wants" to preserve the gateway to South Main street!!!
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 04 2011 at 8:41pm

Ahhh Mike
    Are you telling me that you didn’t understand all that fast double talking or did you get lost as this hot potato was tossed from one staff member to the other?
    Then Mr. Robinett took the floor and stated…We reeeeally are not going to spend this money….we plan to get a grant to cover our share of this project and replace these funds.
(This is the
Middletown
shell game in action)
    This is how money from one fund reeeally gets moved to the general fund because when the grant funds are received they DO NOT go back into these account. This is that little “rainy day fund” that the city uses for their special little pet projects.
    
And then we had SIGNS SIGNS EVERYWHERE!
I would like to Clap  Anita Scott Jones, AJ Smith, Josh Laubach, Dan Picard and
Tom Allen for a vigorous discussion about the changes to the new sign law.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 05 2011 at 10:50am
A lagoon, you say? Perhaps another attempt to establish a spin off of Lake Middletown? Could we have another cluster like the LM project where the city was fined by the Army Corps Of Engineers for removing a levy and releasing silt into the river? The fine was around $350,000 or so of the people's money that was wasted. Is the city going to try to dig a hole in the earth without screwing it up this time? Wonder what the fine will be this time when they manage to mess this project up? Will there be a doggie park around this lagoon for the South Main upper crust to walk their critters? They are a comical self righteous bunch aren't they.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 05 2011 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by Vivian Moon Vivian Moon wrote:

]Then Mr. Robinett took the floor and stated…We reeeeally are not going to spend this money….we plan to get a grant to cover our share of this project and replace these funds.


That's not what Mr. Robinette said. What he said was, they anticipate recovering any local costs from companies that have been identified as contributors to the environmental issues and any reimbursement they are able to obtain would go back into the Wellfield fund.

And while he didn't specify companies, Mead Paper at one time owned and operated the plant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 05 2011 at 11:28pm
Originally posted by Mike_Presta Mike_Presta wrote:

We heard tonight that there are apparently plans for some sort of "lagoon" on this site!!!   Sounds like this will make for a beautiful amenity for a GREEN SPACE, but certainly will diminish the site's usefulness as an industrial/commercial development opportunity!!!
 

And of course once this becomes a "wetlands", it will take an act of God to ever develop it.  This sounds like another one of Marty's "wants" to preserve the gateway to South Main street!!!


That's not what I heard. I heard that one of the pieces of the project that will still need to be bid out is the clay capping of the lagoons.

Meaning, the lagoons currently exist--likely used in the past for the discharge of waste--that will need to be remediated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 05 2011 at 11:32pm
Originally posted by Sappy Sappy wrote:

Mike
I checked the resolution you are referring to on the City website, my bet is a drafting error my the Les Landon.


As he indicated as the resolution was presented. Council had a new draft of the first reading with the correction. The wrong Fund was listed in the "bold total area." If you look at the Workbook,you will see that area is where the reference to the Employee Benefit Fund is found.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 05 2011 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by Richard Saunders Richard Saunders wrote:

Isn't the Wellfield Protection Fund funded, at least partially, by fees added to our water bills?


If so, why is that money going to the Employees' Benefits Fund? 


It's not. There was a typographical error in the resolution, and Council was given a revised first reading copy. My guess is that in the next council workbook made available at the City's web site, the second reading version of the resolution will be correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 4:29am
Perhaps the City Law Director should spend more time doing his job (i. e.: writing and reviewing the language of the Resolutions that he presents to City Council for passage) and less time conniving with Marty to thwart legitimate business people from pursuing legal enterprises on their own private property.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 8:07am
Originally posted by swohio75 swohio75 wrote:

That's not what I heard. I heard that one of the pieces of the project that will still need to be bid out is the clay capping of the lagoons.

Meaning, the lagoons currently exist--likely used in the past for the discharge of waste--that will need to be remediated.

SWOhio:

I couldn’t sleep for thinking about this!!!

You believe that there are existing lagoons that have been used for the discharge of industrial waste???

And that this is a type of waste that needs to be remediated to “protect well fields”???

And that, at some point, the former lagoons area (or are you saying the lagoons themselves?) will be capped with clay???

These scenarios cry for relief on so many levels!!!

First, “capping a lagoon” defies logic. Capping a contaminated lagoon doubly defies logic (and this is certainly a case where two “wrongs” do NOT make a “right”). Capping a contaminated lagoon over a well field??? STRIKE THREE!!!

Think about a few things:

1. Before you could “cap” the lagoon, you would have to drain it.

2. You would NOT want to “cap” the contaminated soils at the bottom of lagoon with clay (or with anything else) because this would simply SEAL the contaminants under the cap!!! (The contaminants would be on the “WRONG” side of the “cap”, forcing them to eventually leach right into our DRINKING WATER AQUIFER!!! Clue: This would be a BAD thing!!!)

3. Even if you first REMOVE the contaminants (you would have to pay to haul them to a pit, sort of like a dry lagoon, that someone else had first excavated and LINED with clay) and then sealed the lagoon with clay, you would end up with a DEEPER LAGOON.

4. Even if, after draining the lagoon and removing all contaminated soils (which would then leave no reason for a clay “cap” unless you wanted a clay “liner” for the new, deeper lagoon, you felt the need to fill the entire excavated area/former lagoon, doing so with clay, or a clay/soil mixture, would only ruin the site for future commercial development, except for something like, oh, say a BARK PARK!!! Clay and clayey soils swell/shrink with moisture content and demand expensive remediation to be made suitable for commercial building.

So, the more that I think about it, that is probably EXACTLY what those scoundrels at City Hall have in mind: RUINING the site for future commercial development.

But wasn’t that what I said in my very first post on this subject???

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 8:19am
To paraphrase Mr. Dead Man Walkin':
 
"The Lord is my soils consultant, I shale not want." LOL LOL LOL
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swohio75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 11:37am
I'm not an environmental engineer, nor am going to pretend to be.  Are you? 
 
I was correcting your comment about "plans for some sort of lagoon on the site."  which made it sound like they were planning on adding a lagoon as part of the clean up efforts.  Which is not the case.   
 
I took my information about the former lagoons on what Denise said and from the grant proposal:
 
 
The first known industrial or commercial use of the Property was by the Sutphin Wrenn Union Paper Mill, which began industrial operations at the Property in the early 1850s. The Property subsequently operated as a paper mill until the late 1970s. Manufacturing operations at the paper mill included the production of print, news and blotting papers and associated usage and storage of chemicals and fuels. The mill utilized a "Tail Race" connected to the Hydraulic Canal to supply water and energy. Also, two wastewater lagoons were located on the Property.
 

Ohio Voluntary Action Program (VAP) Phase I and Phase II Property Assessments conducted at the site have quantified environmental concerns from the Property‟s historical use, and confirmed with environmental sampling that a release of hazardous substances and petroleum has occurred in soil and groundwater at levels above applicable cleanup standards. Identified Areas included the former paper mill operations, former lagoons, a transformer, former oil warehouse and adjacent (off-property) hydraulic canal. Sampling conducted in these areas confirmed exceedences of Direct Contact and/or Leaching Standards for benzo(a) pyrene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and naphthalene in soil and exceedences of the Unrestricted Potable Use Standard for arsenic in groundwater. In addition, asbestos was determined to be located in the buildings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 06 2011 at 8:08pm

No, I don’t pretend to be anything. I am what I am: A retired individual with over thirty years experience in heavy industrial engineering and construction.

During my career, I was involved in many demolition, modernization and expansion projects that involved remediation.

All of that aside, use your head for something besides a hat rack!!!

Since you now claim that you were aware that the soil samplings confirmed exceedences of Direct Contact and/or Leaching Standards for benzo(a) pyrene, dibenz(a,h)anthracene, arsenic, cadmium, lead, and naphthalene in the soil, why on earth aren’t you concerned that City Hall seems to be planning to SEAL the contaminated area with those nasty contaminants on our DRINKING WATER WELL FIELD SIDE???

Now, are there any of my SPECIFIC, enumerated points from my 8:07 am post above that you are claiming that an environmental engineer will state as being technically incorrect??? If so, please specifically address them and I will respond!!!

If not, why bring it up???

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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