Middletown Ohio


Find us on
 Google+ and Facebook


 

Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us
Friday, July 19, 2019
FORUM CITY SCHOOLS COMMUNITY
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bond Issue
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Bond Issue

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
Author
LMAO View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Oct 28 2009
Location: Middletucky
Status: Offline
Points: 468
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LMAO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 4:14pm
Agree with you spider,Mrs.Scott Jones excuse is she dont like the name calling on here.Her words not mine.
Josh excuse is he is already hearing hell about agreeing with a few on here from his fellow council people.
Mayor and his bro are to busy getting what they need to make Main st. Purty.Big smile
Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 5:30pm
Vet: this blog is getting pretty spread out, so he is a question from Page 2:   I stated:   "Here's a good question for you: if Duke, etc. owned Middletown Middle School, and wanted to renovate it, would it cost more for the college to do it, or more for Middletown City Schools to do it. And, whichever is more costly, why do think that would be?"
You answered:

I WOULD FIRST NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH HELP IN FINANCING DUKE WOULD GET AS OPPOSED TO MIDD SCHOOLS. NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT FINANCING AND WHAT IS AVAILABLE THROUGH ANY FED OR STATE PROGRAMS TO AID IN THE MONEY AREA. I WOULD IMAGINE THE COLLEGE WOULD HAVE AN EASIER TIME RENOVATING VAIL AS THEY HAVE A GREATER MONEY TAP FROM TUITIONS, BENEFACTORS AND RESEARCH PROJECTS. MIDD. SCHOOLS HAVE ONLY THE POOR, MIDDLE AND LOWER MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE TO BLEED DRY FOR THEIR MONEY TAP.  
My question was which would have to spend more--the college or Middletown Schools?  Not how it was funded, who had access to boosters, endowments, etc.  Who do YOU THINK would pay more for a total renovation.  The choices: the colleges or MCSD?  No long answer; just your opinion from your life experiences.  Not a trick question. Honest. 
Just 1 chmoore.
Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 5:40pm
Vet:  Part 2:  You asked: "I WILL ASK THE QUESTION FOR THE THIRD TIME.......

WHAT ARE THE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS FROM THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS BEFORE THE TEAR DOWNS AND WHAT ARE THE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS WITH THE NEW SCHOOLS?"
 
My answer: I have no clue. I don't think that there can be any comparison because the standards have changed.  I think it was you who stated that when "we" (I'm about your age) were at MHS, all we had was our report card (how did we do for the 6-week term and semester tests?), and the ACT/SAT.  As I stated earlier, I had no concern for either by the time I was a Junior, even though I needed the ACT to get into college.  Still trying to have a civil discussion, not a knock-down fight...   I remain, Just 1 chmoore.
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2683
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 6:01pm
OK chmoore--if the testing/grading standards have changed, and the results are still the same, what does that mean?
Either we are doing better, the same or not as well.
I hope that we are improving and have evidence to back up my hopes.
I know that we have a caring admin and staff--I have listened to them in action.
Parents and role models--IU am not so sure........
Someone has to make the difference, and it appears to be that someone is going to have to be the teachers.
I agree that the buildings and inside environment are a huge factor, both real and perceived.
We can't keep building new, and ending up with the same old eresults
 
I attended Jefferson, Roosevelt and the old high school
None were modern(even then!), air-conditioned or upscale.
Any failures concerning my education were absolutely on my end.
Most teachers were fine, though some had serious issues with the mid/late 1960s culture that was developing
Conditions were never an acceptable factor or excuse.
And we were proud of our schools.
 
Yes--I had Mrs.McBain for Algebra, and scored highest in the school on the college math test.
Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 7:50pm
OK chmoore--if the testing/grading standards have changed, and the results are still the same, what does that mean?
Well, this isn't rocket science.  During the '60s, for example---and as I stated, we had no state tests that I know of.  We had our class assignments that were graded, and our quizzes, classroom tests, participation---we all know the drill.  These made up our grades.  I wasn't compared to Cleveland students, Athens students or Adams Co. students.  If so, it wasn't scrutinized, dissected, analyzed, glued, screwed and tattooed.  Looking back now, I should have made straight As all through 12 years.  I applied myself until 7th grade when they removed my brain and inserted hormones.  Loved the social life, didn't want to do my assignments.  My choice. Where are we saying that the results are the same?  How can that statement be made based on today's testing demands compared to no standardized tests from the '60s?  Graduation rates? I don't think so.  Attendance?  That's a joke from the '60s    Once again this subject becomes too complicated given all the various factors.   Just 1 chmoore.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1876
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 8:49pm
chmoore....the reason, and the sole reason, Middletown is not attracting residents 9besides taxes, poor leadership, infrastructure woes, crime, et al), is the school rankings. To state there was no testing in the 60's means nothing, other than to state one cannot compare the performance of a school district, ergo, Middletown, in the 60's, compared to the present. Okay, reasonable enough, and who cares---that's past----this is present.

Here's Middletown's ranking (high school). As you know, out of 723 distrcts, Middletown ranks 672; that's bottom 7% in state. That is not deserving of new buildings.   

I can't speak for your raging hormones in 7th grade, mine hit my freshmen year in college---a late bloomer I assume. But I did graduate and then on the post grad work and degrees. Thank God for college prep in high school. Hell chmoore---kids today can use the advanced TI calculator for the ACT and SAT, not so when I took it. You are comparing an orange to an apple (in my humble opinion of course).

Anyone who would vote for a levy with the dismal school performance and enrollment must have been preoccupied with hormones, or other distractions, than a clear mind.   
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2683
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 06 2013 at 10:10pm
chmoore--being ranked and rated is nothing new
comparisons are made in virtually every aspect of life
academic results are real, especially when all districts are measured equally to the same standard
if you are consistently rated near the bottom, obviously you are not doing very well
nothing unfair about that--actually it is very real and fair--what is is what is, and definitely not rocket science
you seem to be spinning with your non-answers
Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 1:34am
Spider: I thought that this would proceed differently, but it hasn't.  Five people on here are never going to support the schools (i.e., a levy for 2 new school buildings).  This, by the way, also means no other tax-related issue.  I accept that reasoning---I don't agree with it, but I accept it.  Crucify me, if you must, for seeing more value in new buildings than just that 2nd grade Johnny is 3% points behind the "state average" whatever that means.  Don't forget, by the way, that some districts have even cheated to raise their standardized scores!  Since this is an endless discussion, it's really not worth the effort.  Vote and support, or don't.  I won't change, you won't change.  One other analysis for fairness' sake, look at the 2010-11 school report---the infamous "6-out-of-26": on the report, MCSD's 10th grade and up scores show that, of the 12 indicators, Middletown students were above or equal to the "similar districts" (quote: "Similar Districts are based on comparing demographic, socioeconomic and geographic factors", i.e., OUR PEERS, in 11.  11 out of 12....  You won't see that mentioned anywhere else on here.  Thank goodness November will show us what the full voting public wants, one way or the other.   Just 1 chmoore.

 

Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 6883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 6:14am
I believe I have made my choice as to your question ch.....

ch:

"My question was which would have to spend more--the college or Middletown Schools? Not how it was funded, who had access to boosters, endowments, etc. Who do YOU THINK would pay more for a total renovation. The choices: the colleges or MCSD? No long answer; just your opinion from your life experiences. Not a trick question. Honest.
Just 1 chmoore.

VET'S ANSWER TO ch's QUESTION:


"I WOULD IMAGINE THE COLLEGE WOULD HAVE AN EASIER TIME RENOVATING VAIL" ie, I believe the college would have an easier time financing the renovation, (especially here in the poor community of Middletown) As to paying more, the cost would be the same for renovation of Vail. Doesn't matter who was trying to renovate it. The renovation company doesn't care where the money comes from, just so it lands in their pocket when they're done, right? The price quoted for renovation is the price quoted.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 6883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 6:33am
Originally posted by chmoore1 chmoore1 wrote:



Vet:  Part 2:  You asked: "I WILL ASK THE QUESTION FOR THE THIRD TIME.......

WHAT ARE THE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS FROM THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS BEFORE THE TEAR DOWNS AND WHAT ARE THE PERFORMANCE NUMBERS WITH THE NEW SCHOOLS?"
 
My answer: I have no clue. I don't think that there can be any comparison because the standards have changed.  I think it was you who stated that when "we" (I'm about your age) were at MHS, all we had was our report card (how did we do for the 6-week term and semester tests?), and the ACT/SAT.  As I stated earlier, I had no concern for either by the time I was a Junior, even though I needed the ACT to get into college.  Still trying to have a civil discussion, not a knock-down fight...   I remain, Just 1 chmoore.


NOPE, WASN'T ME WHO MENTIONED REPORT CARDS, ACT'S OR SAT'S.

ch:

"My answer: I have no clue. I don't think that there can be any comparison because the standards have changed"

DON'T YOU THINK THAT THAT IS AN IMPORTANT THING TO KNOW BEFORE YOU NEW BUILDING GUYS START BUILDING NEW SCHOOLS AGAIN? WOULDN'T IT BE PRUDENT TO SEE THE RESULTS OF YOUR NEW BUILDING PILOT PROGRAM WITH THE ELEMENTARIES BEFORE YOU SUGGEST TO US TAXPAYERS THAT WE OUGHT TO BUILD ANOTHER ROUND? IT IS NOT LIKE YOU WERE BLINDSIDED WITH EACH CHANGE. I'M SURE THERE WAS AMPLE TIME TO ADAPT. APPARENTLY OTHER SCHOOL DISTRICTS DID AS THEY HAVE BETTER PERFORMANCE. EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE USING THE OLD "STANDARDS HAVE CHANGED"/"THEY CHANGED THE RULES ON US" ROUTINE (ALWAYS THE GAME PLAN WHEN THE SCHOOLS ARE BACKED INTO A CORNER), HOW ABOUT TAKING A GUESS FOR US AS TO WHAT YOU THINK THE NEW ELEMENTARIES HAVE DONE TO AFFECT THE OVERALL PERFORMANCE- BETTER PERFORMANCE OR NO DIFFERENCE. HOW ABOUT COMPARING THE PROFICIENCIES GRADES IN THE ELEMENTARIES PRE NEW SCHOOL VERSUS POST NEW SCHOOL AND TELL US IF THERE IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE. THAT SHOULD TELL US IF THE INVESTMENT WAS WORTH IT, RIGHT? IN YOUR OPINION, HOW MUCH MORE TIME IS NEEDED TO SHOW IMPROVEMENT? HOW MANY LEVIES MUST BE APPROVED TO SHOW IMPROVEMENT? SHOULD MIDDLETOWN HAVE ALL NEW SCHOOLS TO SHOW IMPROVEMENT? WHEN WILL WE SEE IMPROVEMENT FROM WHAT WE HAVE ALREADY INVESTED? TELL US BASED ON WHAT WE KNOW TO DATE.

NO "KNOCK DOWN" FIGHT HERE. I APPRECIATE YOUR SIDE OF THE STORY. DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THE TIME AND MONEY SPENT TO IMPROVE IT AND NOT SEEING IT HAPPEN IN THREE DECADES, BUT, NEVERTHELESS, APPRECIATE IT. JUST LIKE TO "DISCUSS" (ACTUALLY ARGUE). GREAT STRESS RELIEVER FOR ME.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 6883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 6:47am
Originally posted by chmoore1 chmoore1 wrote:



OK chmoore--if the testing/grading standards have changed, and the results are still the same, what does that mean?
Well, this isn't rocket science.  During the '60s, for example---and as I stated, we had no state tests that I know of.  We had our class assignments that were graded, and our quizzes, classroom tests, participation---we all know the drill.  These made up our grades.  I wasn't compared to Cleveland students, Athens students or Adams Co. students.  If so, it wasn't scrutinized, dissected, analyzed, glued, screwed and tattooed.  Looking back now, I should have made straight As all through 12 years.  I applied myself until 7th grade when they removed my brain and inserted hormones.  Loved the social life, didn't want to do my assignments.  My choice. Where are we saying that the results are the same?  How can that statement be made based on today's testing demands compared to no standardized tests from the '60s?  Graduation rates? I don't think so.  Attendance?  That's a joke from the '60s    Once again this subject becomes too complicated given all the various factors.   Just 1 chmoore.


ch, THE COMPARISON IS ON THE CURRENT SITUATION OF PRE NEW SCHOOL ELEMENTARIES VERSUS NEW, CURRENT ELEMENTARIES.....HOW DOES THE PERFORMANCE COMPARE? NOT CURRENT SCHOOLS WITH THE CRITERIA TO MEET IN THE 60'S. TOTALLY DIFFERENT SCHOOL REQUIREMENTS AND OPERATION BACK THEN. IT IS A SHAME WE DON'T HAVE THE DISCIPLINE PROGRAMS IN PLACE NOWADAYS. THEN, PERHAPS, THE STUDENTS WOULDN'T WALK ALL OVER THE AUTHORITY FIGURES AS THEY DO TODAY. TOO DAM KINDER/ GENTLER AND THE KIDS DON'T RESPECT SOFTNESS. PERHAPS THEY SHOULD HAVE COMPARED SCHOOL DISTRICT TO SCHOOL DISTRICT BACK IN THE 60'S. I'M SURE THE MIDDLETOWN SCHOOLS WOULD HAVE HELD THEIR OWN BACK THEN. SURELY NOT NOW THOUGH. THE SCHOOLS HAVE TAKEN A BIG FALL SINCE THEN AS TO STRENGTH OF PERFORMANCE.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 6883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 6:57am
ch:

" One other analysis for fairness' sake, look at the 2010-11 school report---the infamous "6-out-of-26": on the report, MCSD's 10th grade and up scores show that, of the 12 indicators, Middletown students were above or equal to the "similar districts" (quote: "Similar Districts are based on comparing demographic, socioeconomic and geographic factors", i.e., OUR PEERS, in 11. 11 out of 12.... You won't see that mentioned anywhere else on here."

OK ch, USING AN ANALOGY HERE, IF YOU JUST CONSIDER PORTIONS OF THE NORTH AND THE NORTHEAST SIDE OF MIDDLETOWN, THE COMMUNITY APPEARS TO BE UPSCALE WITH PEOPLE MAKING A DECENT INCOME. THAT MAY BE ACCURATE, BUT IT DOESN'T CONSIDER THE WHOLE COMMUNITY WHICH WOULD TOTALLY TURN THAT PERCEPTION UPSIDE DOWN. YOU CAN TAKE ALMOST ANY DATA, EXCLUDE SOME PORTIONS OF IT AND COME TO A FAVORABLE CONCLUSION.....BUT IT DOESN'T TELL YOU THE TRUTH OF THE SITUATION AND IS WORTHLESS DATA TO REPORT WHEN MAKING A CONCLUSION CONCERNING THE ENTIRE PICTURE. EVERYONE KNOWS DATA CAN BE MANIPULATED TO PRODUCE ANY CONCLUSION ONE WANTS TO MAKE.   
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
spiderjohn View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2683
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 7:30am
chmoore--we are all in the same boat here
I appreciate reading your input--your thinking matters--and you are simply one caring person, just like everyone else
I am asking some ?s that none can really answer
 
I support our schools--I see the need to make it better
I have not advocated any voting position, and am not asking anyone to go one way or the other--yet
The public is stretched about as far as possible continually by every level of govt, and the results often aren't worth the investment imo
 
 
Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 7:37am
Vet:  your answer to my "cost of renovation" question: "I WOULD IMAGINE THE COLLEGE WOULD HAVE AN EASIER TIME RENOVATING VAIL.  What I was trying to get to by this question was that it would "cost more" (bottom line, contracted bid price) for any college, because: the renovation would be more extensive (fixing every nook and cranny, upper-end materials used, "restored" condition (no 2 x 4 dropped ceiling---plaster repaired instead).  You get the picture.  I asked this because the comment was made (by others) that the Dukes and Harvards of the world renovate 100 year old buildings all the time.  However, when they do it, it is a "restore to new", not a simple renovation like public schools are doing in Ohio (dropped ceiling, partial masonry repair).  More later, comrade....    Just 1 chmoore.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1876
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 9:08am
chmoore....you should not be dismayed if one doesn't agree with your position.

I mean, if you go into  store, you are looking for value, price point to serve your need. The same holds true for taxes. Should not a voter ask the same questions as they would when buying a suit, a service, furniture, a car? Of course.
That's really what is happening here, its an analysis of cost/ benefit.

To summarize, it appears those who push the taxes our way do so as follows:

1) Vail is in a bad area downtown, and to move it east would be beneficial, assuming at least by some, more would either move in or at least, enroll in school.
2) Its cheaper or break-even, to build new vs update old.
3) It will be more pleasing to students, thus heightening their performance.
4) It really doesn't cost much- 8.00/month- the pizza or coffee tax analogy.
5) We just cannot let our drawal from the state for matching funds go without taking advantage, even though it costs the taxpayer money.

If I read each of the above, not one truly gives or remotely provides, any assurance, property values go up, school enrollment goes up, performance improves. To me, that makes a "no" vote a mandate- same as if i were buying a suit, buying a car, buying furniture, or evaluating a service.

Black and white....no shades of grey. 
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 517
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 9:25am
The one thing Ch and Vet does have in common is to see Middletown get better, you just go two different ways to do it. I do agree Schools are a big part of the Community. Having grown up in Springboro I know that first hand. However in order to convince people that new schools are needed, you also need to make them feel like it is a good investment. But first the people of this community needs to have: 1) Job Security, 2) A Good Paying Job 3) Good & Maintained infrastructure 4) The Feeling of living in a Safe Community 5) Places to go shop, eat, and be entertained. 6) Good High Performing School System.

All of this, Middletown is severely lacking. Which is why many on this forum would rather see our tax money put into attracting jobs, and improving infrastructure. Because if you are able to bring more higher income jobs and people into Middletown, then we can turn our attention to improving the schools.

But none of this can happen because of the terrible decisions made by city council in the past. The worst of all, allowing Section 8 to even enter into Middletown. And becuase of all these bad decisions they have made, has resulted in increase crime, gravel like roads, and a decrease in school performance.

If anything the schools should be the ones to call attention to the Voters on how city council has failed this town and is now failing the children that go to Middletown city schools. And the schools should be leading a campaign to get people to run for city council that will attract jobs and higher income people to this city, which will in turn result in more money for the city schools, through higher property values.

Rather than building a new school and asking for a levy, that will more than likely fail. That will probably keep the same results, and force more people out of Middletown because their mortgages have gone outside of what they can afford.

Basically CH once people start feeling good about living in city of Middletown, that is when people will start to begin to invest in the school system. Not the other way around. To many people in this town are ashamed or embarrassed that they live in M-Town, or Middletucky. And until you change that, you will be had pressed to get people to invest in the schools.

Sorry for my ramblings, I just want to see this town change it's course and start to compete with the other suburbs in this area.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1876
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 10:26am
ktf- what you stated has been said before, but your points were well made and bears repeating.

Can you imagine any city in the United States, that a temporary measure of taking street funds to be used for a year, as was the case in 1986, to keep city employees working to maintain certain services for Middletown residents would actually last nearly 30 years and counting, and not once, did a council member even bring it up for a vote to rescind the ordinance and put those funds back into road maintainence. Unconscionable, deceptive, about every negative adjective one could think to describe such action.

Section 8- city council members did not even have a clue how many vouchers were out there. Hello Marty Kohler- thanks for destroying Middletown. And he maintains his job.

Spending 300,000-400,000. to maintain a golf course, when you have grass higher in streets than the preripheral rough surrounding a fairway? What insanity! Not a city in the United States that its residents would tolerate that. Memo to Judy---go over to Miami and ask them to buy it, make a sweet heart deal, hovers between Oxford, Hamilton, and Middletown campus. And....they have the money, you don't.

Raising taxes just drives property values down, not up. Memo to Judy- See Middletown Regional, AK Steel, CSH, Square D, so many others....run!  Why? Taxes. Houses taking 7-10 years to sell, selling at 50% of 1989 value over and over.

The school board will never speak harsely to Middletown city leaders nor council. Their game is mutual voting blocks. They have this one in the bag- tax levy pass. Why do you think Dick. S., Mart B, others, finally moving? They know the tax rate is coming they would support---they just know its time to bolt and the Middletown cartel is shrinking associated with age.

   
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 6883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 11:12am
THE STATE OF THE CITY BY KTF1179. BETTER THAN LAWRENCE MULLIGAN THE THIRD'S VERSION. MORE TRUTH TO IT. SAYS IT ALL, YET SOME SUPPORTING THE SCHOOLS AND THOSE SUPPORTING THE CITY LEADERS DON'T SEE (OR DON'T WANT TO SEE) THE TRUTH. ALWAYS THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE ON PRIORITIES BY BOTH GROUPS. GRAND SCHEMES OF SUCCESS THAT RARELY PAN OUT. THE SCHOOL PEOPLE WANT US TO CONSTANTLY APPROVE THEIR LEVIES.....THEN... THEY WILL START WORKING ON THE PROBLEMS (WHICH ARE NEVER SOLVED BY THE WAY) OR BUILD THEM NEW SCHOOLS.....THEN... THEY WILL ATTEMPT TO IMPROVE PERFORMANCE THEY "PREDICT" WILL HAPPEN AND THE CITY WANTS US TO GO ALONG WITH THEIR PROGRAM ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS CITY.........WITHOUT US HAVING A SAYSO AS TO WHAT DIRECTION WE WISH THE CITY TO GO. THEY DON'T WANT THE PEOPLE'S INPUT. THE "PREDICTION" THAT THE DOWNTOWN WILL RISE FROM THE ASHES. THE "PREDICTION" THAT CINCY STATE WILL GROW TO 3000 STUDENTS IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS. THE "PREDICTION" THAT THE ATRIUM AREA WILL GROW ALL THE HIGH TECH MEDICAL JOBS WE COULD EVER IMAGINE. THE "PREDICTION" THAT THERE WILL BE USE FOR ALL THE THATCHER BUILDINGS PURCHASED WITH OUR MONEY. ALOT OF PREDICTIONS. NONE TO FRUITION AS YET THOUGH. DREAMWEAVERS. NO MEAT AND POTATOES SHOWN. (I'D PUT A JMO HERE BUT SOME GET UPSET)

I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
acclaro View Drop Down
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Jul 01 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1876
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote acclaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 12:30pm
Vet....it isn't your opinion, it is indeed a fact, all you stated.

The city knows these statements are not true when they make them. Look around, do you see any of the dfocs, attorneys, city leaders, city council members children hanging around Middletown? Of course not, they are gone. The residents in the "know" are well aware the city is a dead end, and get out. The leaders kids are told to get out. I could name 100 families who have kids in Lebanon, elsewhere, West Chester....this isn't a secret, its a well know fact.

The Atrium and the advancement of $5 Mm was known to never generate the revenue they threw out there. Look now at the developer. Its 4% real estate....4%. You know, you get more- with 4? Nothing wrong nor intended about 4% realty, but that's the development engine now, instead of 10% commission on commercial property. East end total bust- total bust.

Downtown- city knew the rhetoric and partnership was nothing more than hype. And Cincinnati State is and has been, having its own problems for years. How and where are 5000 kifs coming from----cannibalizing MUM? It won't and isn't happening.

Expansion out at airport, luring all those businesses from F500's to Middletown, with cheap gas, plenty of space? It isn't happening.

Miler Ridge area going to explode, luring new residents and filing the school? Total bust, in my opinion.

Sawyers Mill area to explode, luring new residents and filing the schools? Total bust, in my opinion.

Arts downtown making Middletown a point of "destiny" an art haven, bringing in middle to upper middle class residents, retirees, enjoying the good life? It won't and isn't happening.

Towne Mall resurgence, new owners, expansion, high end shopping? It won't and isn't happening. Check daily and see about 15 cars sitting in front at rush/ peak hour times. Another bust in my opinion.

You see....everyone is sitting by watching the cookie jar be raided without saying a word, until the city is bankrupt, as councilman Lambaugh correctly is forecasting. Positive cash flow= Cash Flow in Minus Cash Flow Out; simply too mucj out, not enough coming in. As businesses move out, residents are expected to make up difference. That difference is seen by new residents as a negative, driving demand down, added with city problems, and you have the vicious cycle called "decline."

      
'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.' - Winston Churchill
Back to Top
Vivian Moon View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council


Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
Status: Offline
Points: 4187
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vivian Moon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 1:25pm

Excellent explanations by all three of the above posters on why Middletown is failing and why taxpayer must demand change. Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 5:00pm
ktf1179:  I believe you are a relatively new resident of Middletown.  I ask this question not as a smart-ass but with a true  interest in your answer: what attracted YOU to Middletown?  All the rest of us (at least the 5-6 that I know) have lived here almost our entire lives.  You, however, are the exception.  With all the negatives that M-town has (and I agree with all of them, believe it or not) "something" must have made you say "Hey, Middletown's the place for me."  Thanks for sharing---it may put a new perspective on things for us old-timers.  Just 1 chmoore.
Back to Top
TonyB View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen


Joined: Jan 12 2011
Location: Middletown, OH
Status: Offline
Points: 631
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 07 2013 at 5:01pm
I'm posting an article from the Washington Post as a reference to what I was talking about in an earlier post on this topic. While brick and mortar are all fine and good, this article discusses the real problems in our educational system. No new building, fancy equipment or copious amounts of cash will improve our educational experience for children until we fix this.http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2013/02/09/a-warning-to-college-profs-from-a-high-school-teacher/




Back to Top
ktf1179 View Drop Down
MUSA Citizen
MUSA Citizen
Avatar

Joined: Mar 19 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 517
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ktf1179 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 08 2013 at 12:59pm
There are a couple reasons we decided to settle in Middletown.
1) Location - It is literally equal distance between my job, and my fiances job.
2) Price - We got a 4 bedroom split level house with 14,000 square ft. of land for $90,000
3) Conveniences - Within 2 miles of our house, we have Wal-Mart, Meijer, Target, Lowes, Krogers, and I-75
4) Decenct Neighborhood - The Ayrshire neighborhood on the far east side of Middletown has a mix family neighborhood, with lot of kids, where most of the people take good care of their homes, and lawns. Granted the streets and curbs have pot holes, and weeds growing in them. The neighborhood appears to keep an eye out for each other.
5) Good starter home - If the day should come where we need to move, I hope to be able to sell it for more than I paid for it. Given all the repairs and updates we have done so far.
6) Kept Loosing out - We looked for homes in Miamisburg, Springboro, Franklin, Miami Township, Trenton, and Kettering. And every bid we put in we kept getting out bidden.

But by far the house we have now was the biggest, and needed the less repair, considering we told our realtor we wanted to keep it under $100,000 for a house so we could still live comfortably. Besides I fell in love with the desk and the backyard view of a forest and creek.

As for the schools that hasn't crossed out mine yet since, we don't have any kids yet, but when we and they get close to school age we will consider if we want to stay in Middletown or move to an area with better school, like my old hometown of Springboro.

Back to Top
chmoore1 View Drop Down
MUSA Resident
MUSA Resident


Joined: Jan 25 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chmoore1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 08 2013 at 11:33pm
ktf:  thanks for the info.  It is refreshing to know that---even with all of our problems---there are some things that we still have to attract younger families like yours.  Just 1 chmoore.
Back to Top
VietVet View Drop Down
MUSA Council
MUSA Council
Avatar

Joined: May 15 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 6883
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep 16 2013 at 6:23am
And yet another story from our friends at the Journal concerning the upcoming levy......

Temps hit 94 degrees some days at Middletown Middle School

MIDDLETOWN —
Things were heated during Middletown school board’s first traveling work session last Monday at Middletown Middle School.

Principal Michael Valenti led the school board members on a tour last week of the 91-year-old building, which at the time of construction in 1922 was “state of the art,” he said.

“This is a building that has served its time,” Valenti said.

About half of the classrooms at MMS have window air conditioning units. The remainder utilize fans, dimmed lighting and window shades to alleviate rising mercury for the 800 students.

Temperatures range from 84 degrees to 94 degrees inside classrooms across the four-story building, Valenti said. During the tour last Monday, temperatures inside the non-air conditioned parts of the building were about 90 degrees.

“You’re feeling a little bit of heat today …. we feel that all the time,” Valenti said. “It’s not a good learning environment and the kids are worn out.”

Valenti said it’s his goal that a student spends time in air conditioning at least three times a day. He added that classes are sometimes moved out of their respective rooms on the third and fourth floors and into the library for a cooler learning environment.

“Those window air conditioners are a necessary evil and are the most inefficient,” said George Long, business manager.

The Middletown school board has placed a 3.95-mill bond issue and 0.26-mill permanent improvement levy on the November ballot that would support construction of a new middle school next to the high school and renovations to the high school, including a new competition gym, auditorium and additional classroom space.

“What it costs to make learning happen in this building is way more than it will be to bring that comfort to the new school,” Long said.

Valenti, who’s been at MMS for 25 years, said many features of the building have declined over the past nine decades. Among items are ceiling leaks, classrooms with only one electrical outlet, restroom stalls without doors and only a third of lockers in use.

Despite the hardships, Valenti said the middle school has increased its performance index score on three of the last four state report cards from Ohio Department of Education. The school has also exceeded value-added for three years, meaning students recorded more than a year’s worth of growth over the course of a year.

OK, LET'S REVIEW.

THE SCHOOL WAS BUILT IN 1922. THE SCHOOL HAS HAD NO AIR CONDITIONING SINCE THAT TIME, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF A FEW WINDOW AIR CONDITIONERS RECENTLY ADDED. THE CLASSROOM TEMPS RANGE BETWEEN 84 AND 94 DEGREES THROUGHOUT THE SCHOOL. SINCE 1922, THERE HAVE BEEN THOUSANDS OF STUDENTS WHO HAVE ATTENDED, ENDURING THE HEAT OF THE LEARNING ENVIRONMENT AND HAVE BEEN ON HONOR ROLLS, ACHIEVED ACADEMIC AND ATHLETIC EXCELLENCE AND HAVE RECEIVED A GOOD EDUCATION, ENOUGH TO PROPEL THEM TO THE COLLEGE LEVEL AND BEYOND. A WARM LEARNING ENVIRONMENT DIDN'T SEEM TO HINDER THE OUTCOME.

I ATTENDED THAT SCHOOL FROM 1964 TO 1966. I SAT IN THE NON-AIR-CONDITIONED CLASSES WITH THE OTHER 30 STUDENTS PER CLASS FOR THREE YEARS. I LEARNED....SO DID EVERYONE ELSE. CLASSROOM FANS WERE BLOWING HOT AIR BUT WE SURVIVED. NOW, THE NEW BREED OF STUDENT JUST CANNOT LEARN IN THIS ENVIRONMENT. GRADES WILL SUFFER (AS IF THEY HAVEN'T ALREADY) AND THE NEW BREED OF SCHOOL PEOPLE WANT THEIR AIR-CONDITIONING AS THEY ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE EDUCATORS BEFORE THEM. NO ADVERSITY FOR THE NEW GENERATION I GUESS.

NICE LEAD-IN FOR THE LEVY WITH THIS STORY. HEARTWRENCHING.....GUT BUSTING STORIES. THAT'S THE REAL INTENT ISN'T IT? NOT SO MUCH THE COMFORT LEVEL IN THE SCHOOL BUT RATHER GETTING THE LEVY PASSED AND TO SOFTEN UP THE VOTERS BY APPEALING TO THE OLD EMOTIONS CONCERNING THE COMFORT LEVEL. NICE JOB. ISN'T THIS THE SECOND OR THIRD STORY APPEALING TO THE VOTERS USING THE OLD " THINGS ARE BAD AT THE SCHOOLS" ROUTINE? HOPEFULLY THE VOTERS WILL SEE THROUGH THIS FLAK. HARDSHIPS BE DAMED FOR PEOPLE ON A TIGHT BUDGET THESE DAYS.......WE WANT OUR LEVY PASSED REGARDLESS OF THAT HARDSHIP......AND, JUST LIKE THE ELEMENTARIES, WE DON'T FEEL AS IF WE NEED TO BE ACCOUNTABLE WHEN YOU GIVE US A NEW SCHOOL EITHER. DECADES OF BUSINESS AS USUAL IS GOOD ENOUGH. MERCY.
I'm so proud of my hometown and what it has become. Recall 'em all. Let's start over.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.164 seconds.
Copyright ©2019 MiddletownUSA.com    Privacy Statement  |   Terms of Use  |   Site by Xponex Media  |   Advertising Information