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Sunday, April 28, 2024 |
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Central Avenue Demolition Project |
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randy 
MUSA Official 
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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 Topic: Central Avenue Demolition ProjectPosted: Dec 01 2009 at 9:04am |
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BACKGROUND and FINDINGS The City currently owns 1329 and 1347 Central Avenue and will acquire 1325 Central Avenue. 1325 and 1327 Central will be demolished in the first phase of the project. Once funds are available, 1347 Central will be demolished. For the complete information on this project you can read it here Central Avenue Demolition Project
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 07 2009 at 11:12pm |
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1347 Central is the Studio Theater. Hopefully the delay in funds will be long and an alternative to demolition is found. |
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 08 2009 at 7:55am |
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Support you got a Million or two to pour into the Theater, anyone.........I didn't think so. City can't survive on a maybe or hopefully. Tear it down and lets move on to the 21st century. Enough indecision and moving along at a snails pace.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Dec 08 2009 at 8:26am |
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Randy
Please call Mr. Robinett and find out what the demo cost for the Strand Theater will be.
I have not been able to reach him. I believe it was about $400,000
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 12:21pm |
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The demolition bid for the Studio and Barb's Pub was around $400,000 combined. Just tearing down the Studio is probably half that.
Wasteful, I don't have half a million. The State of Ohio's Historic Preservation Tax Credit Program (25% of project costs, the Federal Preservation Tax Credit (20%), and the Ohio Cultural Facilities Commission (funded much of the rehabilitation of the Palace Theater in Hamilton) could help though.
You just have to be creative and tap all resouces. Middletown only seems to know how to tap funds to tear down the city, not built it up.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 1:20pm |
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Support what would you do with it once you renovated it? Middletown's support of such endeavors is dying as the population that would support such things is either moving out of town or passing away. Support think 21st century rather than what was.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 1:29pm |
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If the Hamilton Civic Theatre can restore and renovate the historic Palace Theatre, why can Middletown Lyric Theatre consider doing the same with the Studio/Strand instead of being in a dumpy looking building downtown. And since Middletown is attempting to create and Arts Central District, this would make more sense.
Cities all across the US are finding saving their old theaters/movie houses and finding new uses for them.
Once they're gone; they're gone.
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Marianne
MUSA Resident
Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 1:49pm |
The most beautiful arthouse theater I've ever been in.... If you read its history, you'll learn a bit about how/when it was restored. Fayetteville, NC's downtown is an interesting area... The Cameo in Fayetteville, NC. |
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 2:02pm |
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Swohio personally I think Hamilton is farther along in a recovery than Middletown is, just my opinion. That is why I asked what would you do with it, that would be self supporting in Middletown?
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 6:45pm |
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Wasteful: While that is probably true, it doesn't mean that Middletown is to the point that everything needs to just be torn down and forgotten. If Middletown chooses this path, they will always be behind Hamilton.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 7:39pm |
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Sorry to disagree with you Support I think Middletown has passed the point where they should have been tearing down a hell of a lot years ago. No one is answering my question. What are you going to do with the Theater that will make it self supporting in Middletown and not a drain on Tax payers? What could you put in there that Middletown will actually pay money to go see or do and keep it maintained, employees paid, taxes paid, utilities paid, etc.?
Support, people are leaving Middletown in droves, not just a trickle, but droves. People that pay the taxes that keep the city going are leaving as fast as they can. The number of Houses that have gone up for sale just on Marshal and Manchester Rd. is staggering.
Saving a few old buildings is not going to solve the problem. Your children are going away to college to never return to Middletown as there are no new economy or old economy jobs for them. Just who are you savings these buildings for. If you ask your kids do they want to go to the Studio or to Kings Island or the Movie theater over near Kings Island what do you think they will say. I think you know the answer. You are wanting to preserve these buildings for yourself and the old Middletown residents and we are not the future of this city, the young are. But you are ignoring them for your own self gratification. Most everything Middletown does is not for the future but for the now to support the less fortunate, the elderly, the Middle aged crowd, it is not for the future of this city.....which is our children.
You can preserve all of the buildings you want and all of the memories you want, but those will die away with you and your children will leave never to return and why so you can remember when you were 13 and went to the The theater on a Friday night and had a great time.
While today Middletown children do what, think about getting away from here.
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 8:06pm |
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Wasteful: That is a pretty comical point, considering I am fresh out of college and only interested in Middletown because it is a historic community. I don't have any romantic memories of the Studio, except it being closed and abandoned.
The failing with your logic is that we don't have Kings Island. We have a suburban interchange with a hospital...an amenity that generates income, but only really improves quality of life for older residents.
All Middletown has going for it is its historic and urban assets. The east end offers nothing that suburbia at the next interchange offers. Pretty soon, it will make more since to move to Germantown, Hamilton, or Miamisburg if you want a historic community.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 9:10pm |
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Yup that is comical I had you pegged as someone much older and another resident who thinks Middletown has a bright future on its current path.
The failing in your logic is that we have those steel boxes that have 4 wheels and go 0-60 in about 6-8 seconds. For you college graduates that would be an automobile makes short work of getting to Kings Island and other places which seem to attract the younger crowd.
Can I book you a moving van anytime soon. You act as if Middletown is an island and there is no way out. Sorry to say there many finding their way out of Middletown.
Once again you fail to answer the most basic question. What would you do with the Theater, that would make it financially feasible in Middletown? Fourth time I have asked this question today and no one can answer the question other than to say we should spend 100's of thousands to save it then figure out what to do with it.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 9:22pm |
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Support, I apologize, I was wrong the youth of Middletown have found a use for those old buidlings downtown.
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 09 2009 at 10:15pm |
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My post clearly acknowledges the automobile. I'm telling you, I have no roots established in Middletown and can choose to live somewhere else if the city continues to demolish prime historic properties like this one. I need a reason to live in Middletown. If I am only concerned with Kings Island, I'll move to Mason.
We actually did suggest a use--the Middletown Lyric Theater. Perhaps the Middletown Fine Arts Center could relocate in the building as well. The possbilities are endless if you have an open mind. You are stuck in an abstraction that nothing will work downtown and have completely given up. Maybe you just save the front commercial part of the structure and demolish the theater behind? Maybe you relocate a county office there? Why not think about some options before ruling every possibility out.
You complain about spending hundreds of thousands for restoring the building, but are somehow okay with the same to demolish it. The end result is a vacant lot, more of an eyesour in an urban stretch than the current theater.
The basic point here is that it doesn't need saving from anyone but the city. The building is not a public hazard like the adjacent Barb's Pub building. Will renovation ultimately work? Perhaps not. Or perhaps it can happen and spare taxpayers the expense of demolition.
The issue now is that the city took this building over for $1. Why would they ever do this? They basically just took on the responsibility of a private property owner for all the citizens of Middletown to bear. So if we want to save the building at this point, the city (and thus the taxpayers) may end up bearing some costs. This is the city's failing, not those who care about maintaining a downtown that doesn't look like a bombed out warzone. |
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 4:19am |
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Support Middletown: This is just a thought: Why didn't YOU buy the building? (You could.ve outbid the city by offering only $1.50! I would've been happy to DONATE the money!) Then you could've put it to one of those "good uses" that you mentioned.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 9:43am |
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Support M--Lyric Thear or Fine Arts would be excellent choices IF they were self-sustainable and could fund the re-build. But we know that while they are quality/worthy organizations, they are cash poor and have no substantial customer base/community appeal. Much like the Sorg Opera Guild.
A decision probably should be made as to keep either the Sorg Opera House complex or the Strand/Studio. The Sorg changeover to the current ownership doesn't seem to have gone well, and if that structure can't be maintained, then it will be looking at the wrecking ball. If we proceed with an arts theme in that area(works for me!-I like that stuff if it is quality and not just local amatuer filler), then it must be done by the private sector and property owners on their dime(then they can do whatever their hearts desire). Enough public $$ has been squandered on this area with little to no effective results.
The current over-payment for the small space adjacent to the theater/pub was absolutely insane, as was the $275,000 evaluation for the former Office Outfitter's site(to justify the "equal $$" trade-off for the much more desireable block for Duncan. Our ED Dept. is way out of line, and not in touch with any aspect of the business community. A new gas station(replacing an old gas station) and a convenient store dropped into an area already full of convenience options is hardly a landmark improvement when you factor in the business/job losses from the EXISTING entities impacted by this move"(has ED had ANY contact with other long-term affected businesses?). Not to mention the overall cost of this venture and municipal subsidy.
It is apparent that property owners in the area can let their holdings sit/deteriorate until the city over-pays them for their buildings, followed by the expense of demo and creating a larger vacuum.
As another poster mentioned, I don't expect our new Council to do anything differently other than drink the current batch of municipal kool aid currently being served.
Wasteful made a very tough but accurate post(imo) concerning just whom is being served by this "progress/plan" and whether it has any meaning whatsoever to our younger generations who see finer options/amenities at virtually every exit/road in virtually any direction one wishes to travel.
And as Mr.P says--Support, put yer $$ where your mouth/heart is.
If you can't fund/implement yer thinking, then find private entities that can.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 9:43am |
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Support, I have an open mind and would have no problem with Private funds renovating the theater and maintaining it so the taxpayer is not left holding the bag once the investor fails financially.
There are few businesses downtown which can support themselves on what Middletown Residents spend downtown, Beauverre, Walden, 56 Degree, Digital Visual, all can not survive on what Middletown residents are willing to spend downtown. Beauverre, Digital Visuals, Walden all rely on outside sales for their survival, 56 Degree went under for now. Just how do you think Middletown is going to support a Starving artist district? It is not.
Why has Sorg Opera Company basically failed downtown?
You do not have enough residents that will support such endeavors living in this town and the ones that would are leaving. You have a poverty rate that could be as high as 25%+. You have by the U.S. Census estimates a declining population as of 2008, 2010 will tell for sure. You have a city which is catering to the low income individual, that will not support the arts, rather than the Middle Income individual which would grow the city.
The city can't even support the basics of retail amenities and yet we are to support the arts.
 The City is of the mind that the rail system is going to be some magic bullet which is going to bring in tourists by the droves to support an art district. Many do not subscribe to this fairy tale. You have to at least have some semblance of being a destination city before that will happen....Middletown is not.
Businesses on the east end are failing. Why are people going to support the arts when they can't even pay their utility bill?
If you had a city with a different makeup of residents then I may go along with your grandiose dreams, but under the current circumstances you don't in Middletown. Not Even a majority of the City employees live in the city anymore.
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Mr. Dave
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 21 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 10:11am |
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Wasteful, I agree there is no way that Middletown can or will support an art district. Here is a plan for downtown that I heard and loved , and I would support.. Get a bulldozer with a mile wide plow start at the train tracks on the corner of Central and University and push everything west into the river and let Hamilton deal with it downstream in a few days.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 10:33am |
And exactly what does this accomplish?
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Mr. Dave
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 21 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 10:48am |
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cleans up downtown and gets rid of all the hookers and drug dealers to start. Let me ask you something SWOhio and every one else that has all these ideas for downtown, when was the last time you were down there and not just driving through.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 10:56am |
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I spent over an hour Monday afternoon at the Middletown Arts Center.
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Bobbie
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 05 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 11:00am |
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IMO - I don't think any of us want to have the theatre demolished. They do not make buildings with the same character anymore. I have memories of going there with my parents to see movies. However - at some point it becomes a liabilty. A few years ago I was talking to someone that did maintenance for the Finklemans and he said at that time the building was beyond repair. To the best of my knowledge - buildings do not recover on there own. I do not like that the city bought it for a dollar to tear down - this should have been taken care of by the owner. If I remember this year a lot of individuals received citations to make repairs on their house - this building should have the same treatment. Last I heard was it was hard for a homeowner to get assistance for there home. However someone just received a big break by letting the city foot the bill.
Support Middletown - you are fresh out of college - did you study ecomomics? This building has been for sale for years - no one bought it because you would have to put more money in it then it is worth. You would never get a loan on this from any bank. So you would have to put up cash. Not a smart business move to invest in something that will have a negative cash flow. Yes you can get some grants - however you would have to secure some of the financing (or your own cash) prior to receiving any grant money.
Again I would love to see the theatre saved to take my kids there like my mom took me. My mom would love it as well - as she remembers going there with her friends. But if it is beyond repair - there really is not much that can be done.
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 11:12am |
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BTW – I would be more than happy to frequent downtown if there was more business Open up a micro brew or restaurant with good food and a great beer selection—I’ll be there over Applebee’s ANY day. I think Bullwinkle’s made a mistake with their location and should have considered downtown. The times I’ve been there, they sure don’t appear to be thriving. Coffee Shop? I’d pass Java Johnny’s on Central Avenue to go to one downtown—especially one that had later hours on the weekend and better service. Looking for a unique gift? I’d stop by Beau Verre before driving to Would prefer to see a performance in a more historic and urban setting versus at Dave Finkleman – and did so on a number of occasions with Rising Phoenix Visiting guests—happy to refer them to the Manchester Inn over the hotels at 75/122 The problem with downtown really—property owners who have held their property too long without make investment. Not everyone is in love with suburbia or |
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Mr. Dave
MUSA Resident
Joined: Oct 21 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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Posted: Dec 10 2009 at 1:06pm |
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SWOhio, An hour spent downtown does not count, When 56 Degrees was open did you go? And the real problem with downtown is not the property owners, the real issue is the neighborhoods around downtown. they are drug and hooker infested. Until the city takes the time to clean up those areas nothing will make it there. I don't care what they put there, if you go there and park and have to deal with a crime element you wont go. Face the facts Downtown is a a piece of crap that needs to go.
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