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Central Avenue Demolition Project |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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You asked when I last spent any time downtown, and I think you were caught off-guard that I ACTUALLY had spent time downtown this week—beyond just passing by. So now it’s convenient for you to say an hour spent downtown doesn’t matter because you don’t want to look like you have egg on your face. And yes, I did go to 56 Degrees when it was open. Had drinks and food there. Drove out of my way to purchase wine there to support a local business. I don’t disagree that the surrounding neighborhoods are bad. I believe the city should deal revitalizing neighborhoods—including demo--instead of bulldozing a semi-dense urban area that has some character. You say run a bulldozer down Central. Then what? You really haven’t solved the neighborhood and drug/prostitute issue. What's your plan once our "piece of crap" downtown is gone? |
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Marianne
MUSA Resident Joined: Jul 13 2008 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 165 |
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Wow! So what does "count" for spending time downtown????? |
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Mr. Dave
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 21 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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No egg on my face here, you spent on hour there, I live there and spend all my time downtown. I dont just come down here when it is convenient to do so. As for solving the problem of drug dealers and hookers with no buildings there is place for them to do their work, a bull dozer would fix that.
Now, the whole comment was a joke I thought it was funny. Lets be real here SWOhio, downtown is in shambles and bringing a train here or some art does not fix that. until the city steps up and takes a hard stance on whats going down there it wouldn't matter what they put there. Putting sugar on sh*t doesn't make it sugar. I was just downtown a few minutes ago and saw a homeless man drinking a beer as he walked down the street, cop drove by did nothing about it. No one wants to admit that downtown is gone and whats left is a true picture of what our town has become, A lowincome, section 8, drug deals typr of town.
Yea lets bring a train here or better yet lets make it an art district because thats the answer to all Middletown's problems.
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Mr. Dave
MUSA Resident Joined: Oct 21 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 57 |
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My point was and is Marianne, that people come on here and say what downtown needs or what the city needs to do with it. But they dont live here or come down here except to drive through. To me an hour spent downtown once in a while doesn't count, sorry. What will it take for people to see the area for what it is, a waste of money.
The average person is up 16 hours a day thats 112 hours a week, so an hour out of that 112, an hour spent downtown doesn't count.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Actually one hour is more than enough time to assess the situation. |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Prime example of the Arts and Middletown. This is an Article in todays MJ:
What the Dickens is going on?"Lyric Theatre sings a different carolBy Eric Robinette, Staff Writer
3:22 PM Thursday, December 10, 2009
MIDDLETOWN — Many people are filled with the spirit of Christmas, but Middletown Lyric Theatre is filled with three Christmas spirits. This year the Lyric Theatre puts its own spin on “A Christmas Carol.” The show, called “The Spirits of Christmas,” runs today through Sunday at the Middletown theater on 1530 Central Ave. “Spirits” turns the familiar Charles Dickens tale into a musical journey, courtesy of lead actor and director William “Kip” Moore. “We wanted to do a variety of Christmas songs, but not just do a lot of singing,” Moore said. Moore plays himself, but as a Scrooge-like figure who has turned into, of course, a humbug. He’s especially grumpy at the commercialization of Christmas, complaining of overpriced merchandise and the ubiquitous Santa’s helpers, Moore said." Now this is the citizen comment to go with the article:Somebody wake me up when its over. 12$ for a ticket to see a play or musical by a bunch of rookies, no thanks.
sammy |
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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The above attitude runs rampant in Middletown. Just in the last two weeks in my business in Middletown I have had customers ask/tell me: I shouldn't be charging the poor for my Service or retail Items. I should basically give it to them.
I have had a customer ask me why I charge more than what I pay for an item.
I have had another customer tell me I should be providing the Service for Free.
And my favorite was the young lady who came in and when I rang her up looked me in the eye and said, "What if I don't pay you."
To which I said, "what if I call the Police."
She countered, "What if I walk out the door", and toward the door she goes.
Well in her haste to beat feet out the door she left some paperwork on the counter. I picked up the paperwork and opened it. I then said to her, "Your name is such and such and you live at xyz St. in Middletown, you go on home and I will have the police meet you there." Then I said, "well looky here it states you are on Section 8. After I call the Police I think I will call Consoc and the City and we will see how long you are on Section 8." Section 8 last person to be trying this crap with is me.
Well those were the magic words the money came flying out of her purse and onto the counter and out the door she went.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Well done, Pac!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Your story about your various customers is killing me Pac! I am dying inside to know that the QUALITY of the people living in Middletown now is so much different than it was back in the "good times". We had folks living here that, majority-wise, were honorable and worked hard. Most were ashamed to take a handout and were embarrassed if they couldn't fend for themselves and carry their own load in life. Decent, respectable families raised decent kids who went on to make something of themselves. Now- because of our welfare ladened town theme, (thanks past/present city leaders!) we are attracting these kinds of people who want freebies, think the world owes them everything, could care less about respectibility, and want those that demonstrate responsibility to hand them things. I just wish you non-native folks could have seen this town back then. It was totally different. The city was actually run in a competent fashion. Now- we have inept, mis-focused people running our town spreading their blight,poverty sticken programs to create the slum city of SW Ohio. Mercy, I hate what they're doing to this town.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Supprt, it would appear that Middletown is in the demolish it and do away with the Dead wood mode. If you want to Save a Building buy it, renovate it, spend your funds starting a business in it and then Pray. It seems you want someone else to step forward and do all of the work, risk their funds and possibly waste taxpayers money, while you sit on the sideline and complain about the downtown going the way of the dinosaur.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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welcome to my world, pacman must have been too cold to stand in line elsewhere while barefoot and wearing pajamas. the "entitlement generation" mindset permeates our community, thanks to city admin still waiting for Mr.Adkins and staff to reduce the #s
we(the public and business community) can't support them, and our admin has no real plan for them other than to spend the fed funds recieved on internal job security
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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I went downtown once,I took a tour of all the abandoned & empty buildings. Yep...downtown,thats where I went. Wasn't much to see,I spent an hour or two down there...yep downtown. I seen the sites,downtown. I walked first west then east,yep downtown thats where I was. Yep no place like downtown,all the things you see and all the nice people,all downtown. Thats where I was at,downtown. Yep,good ole downtown. |
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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TudorBrown
MUSA Citizen Joined: Aug 24 2009 Location: Highlands D. Status: Offline Points: 265 |
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Amazing... Please tell me (or send me a private message) what business you're in? |
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Mr.PawnBroker
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Oct 28 2009 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
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If you want to see some amazing people in action you should hang out at my store sometime. It will blow your mind.
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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The last photos of the 1325 and 1329 Central Further down the block, one wonders if other commerical buildings could be in the city's demolition program.
Revelos is coming down with the Duncan deal
This block is partially occupied, but not all that attractive
A respectable building ruined with rainbow colors
Restored, this could be a great block
Rear of said block
Across the street, I am not concerned about the loss of these now-lonely buildings
Closer to the core of downtown sits this attractive block. Although it is vacant currently, I doubt the city would consider demolition in its good condition.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Here let me say bye bye to these old relics.
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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And look we have the only attraction in downtown Middletown the lovely Rainbow Coalition of what Pawn Shops, Second hand stores. Yeah i would absolutely grab the train from one of the 3C city's to come to Middletown for that one. And the city bitches about rusty gutters......makes you wonder what is going on with the mind trust downtown.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Now wait a moment. That color scheme doesn't trip my trigger either. But guess what? Neither does "Williamsburg blue"!!! Does that mean we should tear down all of the Williamsburg blue buildings in town??
You may find those brightly colored buildings unattractive, but they are occupied, commerce is occuring, people are working there, and taxes are being paid. Can you say the same about the Strand/Studio building, the old library building? or many of the other old, broken-down, blighted structures that you find so attractive???
TASTE is an individual preference. Your taste is not "right" simply because it is yours, or your group's!!! Nor is mine right just because it is mine. I can absolutely, positively guarantee you that there are structures in this town that I find MUCH more offensive to the eye than these, yet I not only tolerate them, some are businesses and I PATRONIZE them!!!
You cannot always tell a book by its cover!!! Most often it's what's INside that is important!!!
That's one of the main things WRONG with our city and the people TRYING to run it. They are worried only about appearances and NOT what works!!!
Then again, most snobs are.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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wasteful
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 27 2009 Status: Offline Points: 793 |
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Mike it has absolutely nothing to do with snobbery. I could care less what is inside of these storefronts. Fortunately aesthetics count for something in this world. Yeah I know you are all for letting businesses do what ever the hell they want in this city, which is fortunately not allowed or we would look worse than we do already. You want to continue to be the joke of SW Ohio then you let things like this continue and that is exactly what you will get.
A line has to be draw where personal tastes and attention getting crap like the above is stopped. Here the city is sueing people over signage on the East End and this is going on downtown. There are ways to draw attention to your business without looking like a Nevada Hooker ranch and that is all these businesses have done. I wouldn't use any of the services in these buildings just for the reason of what they have done to the outside of them, my own personal choice whic I am sure you agree with. Using your logic Mike we shouldn't be tearing down any homes, buildings as people made personal choices to let them go and not take care of them and that is their prerogative according to you. At some point you draw the line for the improvement of the community as a whole, not just one persons color blindness. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Now Mike----- on the subject of TASTE in your post. Can you go ahead and explain your stance on TASTE, as you did here, only convert the targeted subject from the color on the downtown buildings to rooting for a football team called the Bengals. And...... could you direct your comments/teaching methods/comparisons to Hermes and randy? It may help them understand the meaning of the word- TASTE. You know me- just trying to help out here.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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wasteful--I respectfully disagree with your direction above. Small businesses are over-regulated in this city, and with regulations that are piecemeal and helter skelter(no cohesiveness, logic or positive benefit). Further complicated by uneven or a total lack of code enforcement. While Atrium/AK and the chosen east end preferred exceptions are allowed to do anything they choose, backed by Mr.Kohler's last minute emergency variances granted by our rubber stamp Planning Commission. Hopefully a major shake-up will occur on this board next year. The leadership needs changed, and older members(especially former Councilmembers) should be replaced with actual business members from all levels of stature. As I continue to preach, inconsistency and uncertainty breeds discontent, especially in such trying times for local business entities fighting for basic survival like never before.
Ya don't have to be a genius or in the loop to see that our city admin policy/direction has failed miserably. Look at our lack of incoming paired with our out-going business concerns from virtually every business segment. Our consistent failed ED direction and actions go back years with multiple meaningless personalities doing little other than working towards personal career advancement. Remember the bad joke that was called Bill Murphy? Are we now similar with Mr.Robinette and Co?
Face it--the emperor has no clothes.
Our retail environment and mapping is a current disaster and has been evolving in this direction for years with no attention from Council/Admin and no inter-relation with the Chamber or local business community.
One by one the key centers have fallen with little awareness or effort to re-build/strengthen them. Why?
I have begun to market my business entities. I have been told that while my holdings are attractive and functional, those interested don't want to branch into Middletown due to appearance,demographics and outside perception of our community and local government.
Sniping on the small,surviving direction downtown is nothing more than a facade, pretending to be dealing with the issue. We(Council/Admin) spend far too much time on menutia, while shying away from the core, big picture-changing issues. Forget about the re-sale shops and their choice of color, other than the serious legal issue of re-selling stolen merchandise. As our city develops, that environment will be replaced through natural selection. If not, then we haven't really lost anything. Ms.Scott Jones is absolutely correct that the victims of such theft have legal right to the return of their items sold/bought illegally without proper documentation and holding period. Mr.Landen is wrong here, and simply trying to take the easy way out.
Hopefully our next Council will move us in the proper direction, though Mr.Picard seems to be the only new member who understands the business environment, their needs, and their frustrations in dealing with such haphazard municipal regulations and policies. Mr.Laubaugh offers hope with his pro-business and consistent conservative thinking, and Mr.Smith will hopefully learn about these issues quickly. Obviously Mr.Becker,Mr.Mulligan, Mr.Armbruster and Ms.Scott Jones don't care enough. Admin is totally absorbed with self-preservation.
All of the Miami U/MU-M involvement discussion will produce little because these people are academia bureaucrats specializing in endless abstract discussion instead of implementation of sound business policies. Good talkers, theorizers and meeting/committee organizers.
jmo
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Spider I have to disagree with you I have been in business in other states and city's and find Middletown's regulations no more restrictive than other city's I have operated in. Now the regs may not be enforced uniformly, I don't see where the city is any worse than any other I have been in and I have been in city's where the regs would make you head spin. Granted some of Kohlers regs on the East end make little sense, but this is where Council needs to step in before they pass the more restrictive ordinances and make changes.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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This is a good example!!! I find the bengals' uniforms quite "distasteful". However, that has nothing to do with what's INSIDE the uniforms. If one dressed the exact same team in the Detroit Lions' uniforms or the New Orleans Saints' uniforms, would it make a difference??? Would one then have a different team, or the same team if the ONLY thing changed was the uniform???
That is the point I was trying to make, and apparently I failed. I am sure that many people find the Bengals' uniforms quite becoming...others, not so much. But their value should be judged by what's INSIDE the uniforms and thier performance, should it not???
If my name was Martin Luther Presta I might say: I look forward to the day where every building in America is judged not by the color of its paint, but by the character of its content!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Wasteful: Apparently, I was unclear in my previous response, and you inferred much more than I intended to imply. For that, I apologize. However, I must clear up some of the more important points that you somehow misunderstood.
You stated: "Using your logic Mike we shouldn't be tearing down any homes, buildings as people made personal choices to let them go and not take care of them and that is their prerogative according to you." I don't believe I have ever expressed such a stupid sentiment. If I have, please find it, re-read it and see if I was being cynical, or possibly trying to make a joke (and obviously failing in the attempt.) Also, sometimes I exaggerate to the extreme to try to make a point. Perhaps that could've been so in the case to which you refer? Regardless, my statements in THIS thread certainly have nothing to do with structurally failing or blighted buildings, but were limited to taste. Now, if the building to which you object are structurally unsound are infested, or are a danger to the public in some other way, or if they are operating in an illegal manner--those would all be legitimate reasons for concern and for taking appropriate civil (or perhaps even criminal) action. But WHO is to decide on TASTE??? Will we have “Taste Police” or a "TASTE Committee” or simply a “Taste Czar”???? What if this “Grand Poobah” of taste decides that he doesn’t like the color WHITE on exteriors of structures??? Would THAT be okay with you??? [Note: This is exaggeration to the extreme in order to make a point!!! I do NOT advocate banning white paint!!!] And what if one then painted one’s white home or business beige, and soon after that Grand Poobah retired and his successor found beige to be distasteful and outlawed beige!!! Would THAT be okay? [Note: I am NOT against beige paint either!] What about bright red or yellow??? You seem to find those two colors distasteful in THIS picture that you posted: BUT, do you find bright red and yellow just as distasteful in these two pictures???: You also state:
Of course!!! I absolutely agree that you have the right to patronize (or NOT patronize) whichever businesses you choose for whatever reasons you choose!!! That is your right, and it is none of my business except to support and defend that right!!! But let me make sure that I understand. Are you saying that you would NOT “use any of the services” inside of either the bright yellow or bright red building above if someone got a proper zoning variance and began offering a service that you needed, and that you would make that “personal choice” “just for the reason of what they have done to the outside of them”??? Is THAT what you are asking me to believe??? If I have understood you correctly, I am sad. I think of all of the towns and even countries I have visited (especially in the south, and in the Caribbean) where you will miss a lot of wonder and adventure simply because you judge buildings by their color! |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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