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Central Avenue Demolition Project |
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Mike_Presta 
MUSA Council 
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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 Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 4:33am |
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By the way, our fair city's unofficial "Taste Czar" has already banned vinyl siding and aluminim siding, a fact of which few people are aware. This includes certain types of "veneers". Even if you have such siding already on your home legally, if, for ANY reason, you must replace the majority of it, you can NOT "replace in kind" legally!!!
This is solely because a small group of people in town think that artificial materials on homes are "tacky" and have no place in Middletown, so someone snuck this into the building code or zoning restrictions.
The idea of a "Taste Committee" in Middletown is really not that far-fetched!!! We already have an unofficial one!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 5:39am |
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Wasteful: You also stated:
Well...no...not exactly "whatever the hell they want"!!! What I do object to is the CITY trying to decide, make that mandate, what kind of businesses we will have and how they will operate, to the point that they keep business OUT!!!
Do you recall Steve Posey? He used to own all of the McDonalds in town. He was a good man, a good civic participant, a generous contributor to good causes, an all-around good guy with a fair amount of dough. He was NOT "in" with the "in crowd"! He wanted to build a couple (3, I think--it has been a while) buildings on spec on Cincinnati -Dayton Road just south of Oxford State Road. The city wouldn't let him!!! They wanted to know exactly what kind of businesses would come in, exactly how many employees, and exactly what the payroll would be before they would give him a building permit. This guy had a proven track record and was a pillar of the community!!! He told them that he's had enough of Middletown's "business friendliness" and he went to Monroe and built those building on spec, and they are thriving today!!
"The City" has been "planning" Middletown's businesses ever since I returned here in June of 1998, and look where it has gotten us!!! They only want "tasteful", upperclass businesses to come here while we have THOUSANDS of skilled, blue-collar tradespeople out of work!!! Our educational system is pumping out a thousand or so MORE unskilled Middletonians every year who cannot afford to move and who cannot afford more training, and--surprise, surprise--cannot find jobs!!! Yet, every time someone wants to try something, with their OWN MONEY, someone like Schiavone or Kohler puts the kibosh on it! THEY say that THEY don't think this business or that can't succeed, so they won't allow it to try. They keep spending taxpayer money on the businesses THEY want...but WHERE ARE THOSE BUSINESSES???
And don't tell me about the economy, the economy has NOT been in the tank all the while since 1998!!!
If these geniuses are such business Einsteins, why don't THEY start "the kind of businesses that "we should have"??? Ooops...one of them did, didn't he??? And it FAILED, even though HE was allowed to violate the SIGN ORDINANCE in order to try to draw additional patrons!!! (The sign ordinance is just ONE of the stupid laws that I think needs to be re-written!!!) Kohler and the Taste Committee believe that signs that can actually be SEEN are "tacky" and therefore are not to be allowed in Middletown!!!
There was a gentleman named Martin who wated to open a restaurant and "blues club" in Ward 2 a couple of years ago. It was going to replace a corner store outside of which druggies hung. I could not believe what the Taste Committee put this poor gentleman through!!! He even had a group of church ladies that spoke in his favor. The Taste Committee did everything but demand to reserve approval rights over the menu!!! I was in favor of this because it sounded like I could get hot food later at night. (There is NOWHERE in Midlletown where one can get non-fast food in the wee hours, and I like to eat very late at night! I used to be able to go to Barb's Pub after the bar closed on Thu, Fri, and Sat) Anyway, they finally cut the guy's hours and put so many other restrictions on him, it was no longer worth even trying to start the business.
Anyway, the fact is NOT that I believe in letting business "do what the hell they want". I just believe that any legitimate business that wants to have a go at it with their OWN funds should be ENCOURAGED, and NOT DISCOURAGED by city hall because it's not "what THEY (city hall) want" or what the Taste Committee wants.
Middletown won't improve until our home-grown, blue collar work force finds employment NO MATTER how many white collar jobs we land around the hospital. The ones who take those jobs will live in other towns up and down I-75 or to the east. The upper class folks that our Taste Committee wants to hob-nob with will NOT come to Middletown until our home-grown blue collar work force unemployment problem is SOLVED!!! (No matter WHAT COLOR the buildings are!!!)
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 4:28pm |
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I would like to volunteer to be the chairperson on the "Board of Good Taste" or the
"Good Taste Committee"!
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 16 2009 at 7:51pm |
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Spider: I doubt that is possible!!! The "Taste Committee" is a subcommittee of MMF, and as I recall, you were an outspoken critic of that group (as I was).
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 9:08am |
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lol mike
had an interesting conversation with an in-coming Council person about this organization.
He stated how "we" are mis-informed about this worthy organization(were we ever informed about it--even after ?ing it's direction?).
This person stated that MIDDLETOWN MOVING FORWARD and MOVING MIDDLETOWN FORWARD were completely different organizations. So--I asked just who were members of both organizations? The person replied that the SAME PEOPLE made up both organizations ?!?!?!
So--since city legal drafted the charter on the city dime, the city manager and mayor are members on the city dime, I assume that this is a city Admin organization.
So--where do I apply for membership next year?
Through the city?
Through the Chamber?
Mrs.Mort? Mr.Slagle? Mr.Cohen? Mr.McNeil?
I think that my resume as a long-term local businessman qualifies me for a seat at the table!
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 9:18am |
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This person stated that MIDDLETOWN MOVING FORWARD and MOVING MIDDLETOWN FORWARD were completely different organizations. So--I asked just who were members of both organizations? The person replied that the SAME PEOPLE made up both organizations ?!?!?!
SpiderJohn What?..same people? This makes my brain go…TILT…TILT…TILT |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 10:13am |
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Gonna take a shot hear on the incoming council member who told Spider that these two groups comprised the same members- Picard. He seems like he's "one of them". Has a little know-it-all "arrogance" about him. Perhaps that's just he lawyer attitude in him also. Question for the person (Picard?) who told Spider both groups had the same people as members....... If true, why the need to have two different groups that have (assuming here) the same agendas of "moving the city forward"????? What would be the purpose in that, other than to attempt to disguise and confuse those (outsiders) who would inquire as to the nature of the organizations. Secretive little pests, aren't they?
 I can just picture the scene in Animal House when they are doing the initiations when Kevin Bacon bends over and says, "thank you sir, may I have another".  Just see Mort dealing out the swats with that wicked smile on her face as Gilleland counts out loud and Marty Kohler in the back, licking his chops to get in his fair share. What a comical scene.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 10:22am |
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That sounds just like the city council when they meet with the city manager and other staff behind closed doors in a "pre-arranged discussion of city business". They claim that they are NOT city council but a SUB-committee of city council that just happens to be made up of a quorum (+) of city council members.
Unethical, law-breaking criminals...ALL of them!!!
At least we have the word of Armbruster, Picard, Smith, and Laubach (on record at the candidates' forum at the Community Center) that they would NOT participate in such meetings!!!
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Hermes
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1637 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 12:45pm |
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I wanted to replace my siding next spring,so now I can't ?!!!! What the hell am I suppose to do ? Let the friggin city tear it down because it's an eyesore or something ?!! Thats why one puts on siding in the first damn place !!
 Gees...I may just let the bank foreclose and move my rear back to Ky where this kind of crap doesn't go on.
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No more democrats no more republicans,vote Constitution Party !!
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lrisner
MUSA Citizen 
Joined: May 26 2009 Status: Offline Points: 330 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 6:43pm |
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I spend a lot of time in Liberty Twp. There are a lot of 200k Houses there with Vinyl Siding. I guess Middletown wants to be more upscale than Lib Twp! |
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 8:10pm |
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Hermes...Mike is insane. As long as your home isn't in a historic district, you are fine with siding. There are design guidelines for new construction as well, but you should be fine otherwise. |
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swohio75
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 13 2008 Status: Offline Points: 820 |
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Posted: Dec 17 2009 at 9:41pm |
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Well only if you are not doing new construction. New homes must use mostly all natural material (wood, stone, brick, stucco, etc. Unless you request a variance from the ARB.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 18 2009 at 12:23am |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 18 2009 at 5:11am |
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Here is a little “light reading” from Middletown’s Codified City Ordinances that some of you sane folks might want to peruse at your leisure: (I would post a link, so you could find it more easily, but find it yourself!!! It’s enough to drive you INSANE!!! ) § 1222.01 CONFORMITY WITH ZONING ORDINANCE. The regulations set by this Zoning Ordinance within each district shall be minimum regulations and shall apply uniformly to each class or kind of land or structure, as provided herein. (2) No building or other structure shall be erected or altered in any other manner contrary to the provisions of this Zoning Ordinance.§ 1222.02 NONCONFORMITY WITH ZONING ORDINANCE. Within the districts established by this Zoning Ordinance or amendments that may later be adopted, there may exist lots, uses of land, structures or uses of structures which were lawful before this Zoning Ordinance was passed or amended, but which would be prohibited, regulated or restricted under the terms of this Zoning Ordinance or future amendment. It is the intent of this Zoning Ordinance to permit these nonconformities to continue until they are abandoned, but not to encourage their survival. It is further the intent of this Zoning Ordinance that nonconformities shall not be enlarged upon, expanded, extended or be used as the basis for adding other structures or uses prohibited elsewhere in the same district.§ 1225.03 ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS. (b) Building materials.(1) Walls.A. One and one-half and two-story dwellings. All first floor exterior walls that are visible from the street shall be constructed of natural material (stone, brick, wood, stucco, cultured stone, cement siding or hardy plank). All other exterior walls areas of the dwelling may be constructed of other code approved building materials.B. One story dwelling. All exterior walls shall be constructed of natural materials stated in division (b)(1)A. of this section.
PS: If you don’t think the Commission on Landmarks and Historic Structures can FORCE the wrath of God upon you, just look up all the powers they managed to sneak through for themselves over YOUR property…IF you can find it among the 1400 plus pages. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 8:59pm |
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You are drawing conclusions that are not accurate. I can understand from the text you posted above why you might, however. Drive around the city and you can observe vinyl siding being installed on many, many homes. The city has not restricted this. There are even properties within the South Main Street Historic District that have vinyl siding on them; although I'm sure that had to go through the Commission on Landmarks.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 9:46pm |
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Did you actually "drive around town"??? As you "drive around town" do you stop at these "many, many homes" and check to see if they had building permits???
If these "many, many homes" are having vinyl siding installed they are either:
A: Doing so legally under a variance,
or
B. Doing so illegally.
I can cite laws on drugs here and state a "conclusion" that drug dealing is illegal, yet "drive around the city and and you can observe" drugs being dealt at "many, many" locations. Does that mean that I was "drawing the wrong conclusion" when I said drug dealing is illegal???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 10:00pm |
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Regarding the homes in the so-called "historic districts":
Of course they get variances!!! As I have stated before, the whole "history hysteria" in this town is not about history. It is all about keeping out (or kicking out) those that the "it" people find undesirable. When they actually have to do something to their own property with their own money, they tend to do it as cheaply as possible, hence the vinyl siding on their "historic" structure. Their MMF friends make sure they get a variance (if ithey even bother to apply for a permit). It's generally only when its the public's money that nothing but the best will do, just for historical accuracy, of course.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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SupportMiddletown
MUSA Resident
Joined: Nov 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 181 |
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Posted: Dec 20 2009 at 11:09pm |
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You are wrong. You can argue a million ways that you are right, but I am not wasting my time pulling out pieces of the zoning code and attempting to explain it, because I am sure you would never believe that the city is not out to get you. If you want to think you are correct, go right ahead.
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viper771
MUSA Resident
Joined: Mar 16 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 221 |
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Posted: Dec 21 2009 at 1:22am |
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If you are on the historic register you can also get federal grants if I am not mistaken.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Dec 21 2009 at 8:22am |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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