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Laubach feels Middletown is....

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    Posted: Aug 20 2010 at 10:51am
gotta love the ridiculous throw-away comments of PAC deal supporters "oh well, gotta try something".  I would agree if we were simply swinging a reasonable deal to allow PAC to operate there.  Maybe giving the building away in exchange for certain guarantees on hiring, payroll  tax, etc.  But to support the actual deal as if it is not a desperate giveaway of precious few city resources is being dishonest at best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 20 2010 at 9:46am
So gemini agrees with himself? lol
Hey smart guy--no one really opposed the project. Actually most see it as a plus.
However--many ? taxpayer funding and a prime property giveaway to a multi-millionare from out of town. I guess that the supporters expect to rub elbows at Indian Hill art gatherings now?
Mr.Verdin is the only positive in this project.
The local art community is still clueless and hasn't been able to create any business growth and can barely support themselves without taxpayer handouts.
 
just a bozo here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemneye70 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 20 2010 at 9:33am
agree
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gemneye70 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 20 2010 at 9:33am
Don't listen to these bozos JL...do what you think is best for the city.  I for one like the PAC idea...beats doing nothing and then sitting around bitching about it like some others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 19 2010 at 7:28am
Mr. Laubach, Mr. Smith, Ms. Scott-Jones.......just out of curiousity, and off the record, how did you view what took place with the Pendleton approval? Do you still think it is the right move to make and why? What do you think your response will be if it fails in a few years or if Verdin backs out for some reason? How will council explain the rehab cost while sitting on another empty building, should that happen?

Thank you in advance for any and all responses if you choose to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 12:06pm
Sal, that would be one lonely forum, seeing how not much positive is happening in this town. You and groupie could chat back and forth about what a great town this is and how the mall is such a great shopping place. Talk about coming to visit for a good laugh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 11:58am
Hey Sal- your first post said you had better things to do with your time than to post on this site. Why are you back? Thought you didn't like us "older than 40" people? Afraid you might learn something here, youngun'?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 11:34am
Hey town mall groupie...

We should start a forum for positive support and encouragement and fight the good fight against the constant Middletown lamenting.  However, I do get a laugh from them on my breaks from economic studies. 

What you think.....?
Sal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 10:49am
groupie- What????? Hillbillies usually like casinos??? Most people that frequent casinos usually have money to spend. The sterotypical hillbilly has no money, right? What's the connection if true?

Yeah, I'd like a casino to locate in Middletown. Would certainly stimulate money flow. Would create jobs and would attract residual restaurants and other attractions aka- Lawrenceburg- Argosy. The downtown would light up like a Christmas tree with development if you stuck a casino there. Would draw people from all over if they knew they had a chance to win some money while enjoying themselves. Would certainly stimulate more growth and jobs than this arts nonsense and this Pendleton artists concept. That idea will do little to nothing for the downtown nor the town in general and will benefit a limited amount of people. JMO

The Towne Mall- a shadow of it's former self in the 70's/80's. Never marketed correctly, never had any chance of success when considering Tri-County or the Dayton Mall as to shopping choices. A small town operation for a small town mindset.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote townemallgroupie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 10:30am

Hillbillies usually like casinos.  How would you guys feel about bringing a casino to Middletown?  That's the only thing I would put in place of the Towne Mall, again, the most underrated mall in the United States.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 17 2010 at 8:54am
Sal - you knock everyone on here for their "intellectual" comments.  Explain yours to us - you are  acting like a 12 year old.  If you want to play with the grown ups - then post your side of the debate on why you think Pendleton is great for the city.
 
Personnally I do not have a problem with the Art Center - but the deal he is getting is not right by any means.  Since you are young - go talk to some economic professors - and they will tell you this will not generate money to the city.  Nor will a monthly garage sale add business to the downtown area.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 5:09pm
TownMall, dont forget pot holes large enough to swallow your car.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 5:05pm
Bring on the wrecking ball!!  I want a six story office tower full of corporate headquarters....like AK, Contech, First Financial.....oh wait...on second thought....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote townemallgroupie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 4:42pm
Don't underestimate the Towne Mall.  It has something for everybody.  If you're into coins, it has "Middletown Coin Connection."  If you're into vitamins, it has "Vitamin World."  If you're into farmer's markets, it has "Farmer Frank's."  If you're into sports, it has "Dunham's Sports."  If you're into jewelry, it has "Roger's Jewelers."  If you're into nails, it has "Cincinnati Nails."  If you're into crickets, it has a "Cricket" store.  WTF else do you guys want???  The penny horse from Meijer???  Now get on over there and support the place before it has a date with a wrecking ball! 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 3:14pm
Sal, thanks for your post. I do have a question for you, and I dont care if you respond or not ( which you wont). If you are in the age range of Mr. Laubach, then you are also in my age range. So, I have to ask...do you like living in a town that has 1600 section 8 vouchers, a town that has the worst roads around. A town that has leaders that only think of what is good for them and their friends??
 
You talk about people on this site like they do not know what is happening in this town any one with half a brain can see the shape we are in. I guess you cant see it, so half a brain is what you must be missing.
 
I hope when the art center does come to the downtown area you enjoy yourself there, make sure to help the crack heads and hookers you find in that area, since you seem to care so much about our fair city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 2:54pm
You people have nothing better to do with your time than to complain complain complain and post your "intellectual" thoughts on here.  You give people like me the occasional laugh (which I am young by the way) because I spend the majority of my time learning from people who aren't wasting their time with silly forum posts and are actually courageous enough to help and empower young people like me and Mr. Laubach.  What a poor example you..."intellectuals" and well experienced people are for young guys like myself.  You're all a joke too me.  I'm glad I don't know you but I do learn from you and that is...what I don't want to be when I get "40 years" under my belt.

First and last post.  I have more important things to do than read your mindless negativity.   


Sal
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Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 2:29pm
It would seem to me that getting more notoriety for taking care of existing businesses, getting serious on the sewer and street issues (what about municipal bonds?), and leveling more useless buildings to create more "shovel ready sites" would be a better approach for potential rebirth of Middletown.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wasteful Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 2:18pm
From the photos on the Journal's website the ARt and Music Festival looked like a bust to me.  No more than 10 or so people in any picture.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 10:28am
hey groupie---how many art purchases have you made at Beau Verre?
When was the last time that you were there?
Did you support ACF ana MAMF?
What art is at Towne Mall?
 
Any report on the MAMF music fest in the former downtown area last Saturday?
Great bands and music variety.
No coverage in the MJ--no crowd estimates or reviews--no  organizational comments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 10:03am
Nice try groupie- actually, you can't stereotype rednecks with NASCAR anymore. The backyard, redneck, junker race cars in the old days of NASCAR (50's-60's) are a thing of the past. There's big money in NASCAR now and, like all racing, has gone upscale. (Personally, I like Mid-Ohio-Audi, Corvette, BMW, Porsche racing, not NASCAR), but it is still quite expensive to race.

2 for 1 Frickers???? Naw, don't get out much these days.

You still want the arts downtown after all of these posts and all the data and reasons why this is a bad idea? All of this is not convincing enough for you? Risking your taxpayer money on a venture like this doesn't throw up any caution flags for you? Giving Verdin a free ride on the taxpayer's back doesn't bother you? Concentration of something as insignificant as the arts when this town is on life support as to the need for the basics doesn't worry you? Mercy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote townemallgroupie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 9:37am

THE GROUPIE WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS:

Bring some artsy stuff to town.  You rednecks need a little a little culturing.  It can't be NASCAR and 2-for1s at Fricker's all the time, dammit!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 9:22am
This whole approach by, I assume Judy and Kohler, boggles the mind.  This city has spent years making it tough for any existing business to survive here, from battling AK execs over income tax collection years ago, to essentially running/ignoring the AK HQ out of town, to turning down interest by viable businesses to purchase the Swallen's building, and on and on and on.  No, we wouldn't want actual businesses to stay in town and pay city income taxes, but we do want artsy businesses to open up and never have any chance of contributing to tax base.  It's as if city admin wants us to become Yellow Springs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 9:15am
Much better presentation Mr.P.
I doubt that I will attend tomorrow evening.
Outside of "Citizens' Comments", there will be no public discussion(when was public discussion on this legislation outside of on MUSA?). I'm sure that our Mayor will have his 3-minute timer for any of our comments, though Mayor Mulligan responded to my email in a very prompt,open and courteous manner. Also Ms.Scott Jones responded. Nothing from my ward Councilmember(for the 2nd time--2 different issues).
 
Though if there is a large group going down to voice their opinions, I will be there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 8:53am
Below is the SECOND email that I sent to all council members this morning.
I had planned to attend the meeting tomorrow, though it sounds like it will do no good.
 
Is anyone else up to it???
 
 
Lady and gentlemen of City Council:

Please find below, a listing of reasons why you should vote against, and lobby your fellow council members to vote against, Ordinance No. O2010-53, the Pendleton Art Center Proposal, at tonight’s meeting:

  1. NO actual business plan has been presented.
  2. NO projected Return on Investment (ROI) for the taxpayers has been presented.
  3. City staff claims there has been an “extensive demographics study” performed, but no statistics of any kind were able to be presented when the EDD was questioned about the results.
  4. NO commitment of new employment has been made or included in the contract.
  5. NO commitment of a financial investment by Verdin is included in the contract.
  6. NO actual facts or statistics of any kind have been presented to council (in public).
  7. Before approval, staff owes council and council owes the public information on whether or not a $700,000 building, plus $450,000 in cash and cash equivalents has been offered to any other businesses who have wanted to come to Middletown without any real plan or commitments such as described in the six items immediately above.
  8. The “Master Plan Steering Committee“ (a committee that council itself has appointed!) has advised against such agreements:
  9. “A concern was expressed that companies locate to a community for the economic incentives and then later relocate to another community for additional incentives. It was noted that businesses who make more substantial investments in real property and fixed assets are less likely to relocate.”
  10. The “Master Plan Steering Committee“ supports that a “key economic development strategy is to support the sustainability and expansion of the existing workforce. 80% of job growth is from existing businesses.”
  11. The dreams and expectations of ancillary growth and spurring of economic activity expressed for this venture are nearly the same as those expressed for Beau Verre. Those hopes and dreams have been proven to be false, even though Beau Verre itself has been quite successful. There is absolutely nothing that makes the expectations for this outcome to be any different. NO ONE has cited facts, figures, statistics, or anything excepts hopes and dreams to provide expectations of a more favorable outcome for this venture.
  12. There is NO reason except for personal preference of those in and around City Hall for the City to have a strategy of recruiting new businesses from this targeted industry (the arts) when nearly every venture in that industry attempted here has either failed, or, at best has been self-sustaining without spawning ANY additional economic activity. MAC has not done so, Middletown Symphony has not done so, Beau Verre has not done so, Sorg Opera has not done so. Rising Phoenix has not done so., etc., etc., ad nauseum. Please explain the Obsessive/compulsive urge to continue to use taxpayer funds where all public and private attempts have failed and how this continues to be in the public interest!!!
  13. The ONLY “new businesses” that have been targeted in years for the former downtown Middletown are the arts, antiques, up-scale bistro-type eateries with limited appeal to the immediate demographics. This “strategy” has been a proven failure over and over and over in promoting any sort of economic growth in this area. Yet the city has purposely and actively “discouraged” all other types of businesses from coming anywhere near what strangely seems to be treated as some sort of “sacred ground”. What has changed suddenly to make this different??? Is this something like the “Middletown Promise” in that it does not really exist?
  14. The Mater Plan Steering Committee notes that: “the EPA restrictions on the expansion of the combined sewer system is blocking the development of areas in the northeast corner of the City.” Can these funds not be better applied towards that end? Or towards road improvements?
  15. As of Friday, 8/13/2010 (the day that the workbook was posted on the city website) Exhibits B and C remain “Not available”! I doubt that any of the legal minds on Council or on City Staff would recommend signing a contract with BLANK spaces. Yet here is a contract with KEY EXHIBITS that remain BLANK!!! It boggles the mind, and should boggle council, how an agreement could have been reached TWO WEEKS AGO. Council would be well-advised to ask themselves how this agreement between the city staff and Verdin could POSSIBLY have been reached without knowing: Developer’s final floor plan for the development of the Property by the construction of improvements thereon these shall be a part of this Agreement as shown on Exhibit B, or what the City shall necessarily repair or cause to be repaired, the items described in Exhibit “C”!!! Neither party could possibly know their liabilities. Staff is either HIDING information from Council, or is incompetent and an extreme liability to the city, and should be summarily fired in either case!!! There should be no other choice!!! They are NOT honoring their oath of employment!!!
  16. Mr. Robinette stated that PAC-M will not be competing with PAC-C because PAC-M will be drawing from a “30 mile radius.” The fact is that PAC-M is 31 miles (as the crow flies, if I may use such a low-brow term) from PAC-C. If I recall my geometry correctly, that means that 25% of their draw is EXACTLY the same, including the toney West Chester and Indian Hills areas. (Let’s hope that the rest of Mr. Robinette’s “extensive demographic studies aren’t similarly flawed.)
  17. City staff has been more than “reticent”, shall we say, to allow anything but arts-oriented businesses (include antiques in that) downtown. Council should be questioning this, in the opinion of the people, since arts have never flourished in downtown Middletown!
  18. If THIS council” repeats the mistakes of past councils it will inhibit free trade by subsidizing this one, single "packager", thereby FOREVER guaranteeing him a MONOPOLY on art studios, coffee shops, and framing stores within MILES of downtown Middletown!!! This will likely cause HIGHER prices, FEWER “artists”, LESS overall commerce downtown, and concurrently INCREASE poverty, crime, and hasten the decline of both downtown and the ENTIRE city!!
  19. The Broad Street Bash shows that Middletonians will go to the former downtown area for the right reasons. When was the last time that the “fine arts” drew 3,000 or more people downtown in one weekday night? 2,000? 1,000? “The People will return to downtown for the right reasons! We can FACTUALLY prove that, we have empirical data. Council just needs to understand that what city staff is selling “ain’t the right reason!!!”
  20. How was this PAC-M thing initiated? Was a Request for roposals/Qualifications for the utilization of up to $500,000 in available funds for bona fide downtown redevelopment made? Where was it advertised? Or was this just a “done deal” for ONE person??? If so, WHY??? Is that legal??
  21. Can anyone provide the attendance figures for the 143rd American Watercolor Society, Midwestern Exhibition, a three-week (plus) event recently held here in Middletown? This was a purported draw from the ENTIRE mid-west!! If attendance over THREE WEEKS for that wasn’t in 6 figures, how many serious art-lovers (those who will buy, not just those looking for free wine) do you REALLY think will show up every month here.
  22. Who insists on finding individuals who must be PAID to implement variations of FAILED models of business that have no record in our city of promoting economic growth, increasing local employment, or of adding to the local income tax base, and must do so using financing from taxes confiscated from the working poor and middle class with little hope of any return on such investment??
  23. If one does the math, even if this new art center achieves all that is expected, after several years, it will only be bringing between 35 to 50 visitors to town one Saturday per month. (Based on PAC-C size, numbers.) How can anyone consider this a proper use of taxpayer funds or expect it to spawn more businesses???
  24. How much “art” will our new starving artists have to sell just to pay back the taxpayers for Mr. Verdin’s $200,000 loan and $250,000 in improvements? I’ll tell you: IF they are all honest, declare ALL sales at full value as income, claim NO expenses or deductions of any kind (not even the “standard“ deduction), THEN ONLY a little over $25.7 MILLION dollars worth of art will have to be produced and sold out of the proposed PAC-Middletown for the taxpayers to get their CASH investment back!!!

Anyway, other than the above 24, I can only think of a few dozen more reasons to vote “NO” on this terrible piece of legislation, but it is way past my bedtime and I am very tired of typing.

However, I do have one question for you esteemed council members, or for city staff):

Can anyone explain to us mere citizens EXACTLY why this will be "a great thing" using actual facts and figures? That is, can anyone explain why it will be "a great thing" using ANYTHING other than wishes and dreams?

“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug 16 2010 at 7:43am
Just a quick note:
I'm feverishly working on an email listing all the reasons (voluminous) why to vote NO!!
I'll post it after I email it.
I won't address Mr. Laubach individually, it'll be to entire council.
One aside to Mr. Laubach (maybe I'll get more respect If I call him "Mr."):
YOU were the one who introduced Messrs. Jefferson and Smith into this discussion!!!  I'd be interested in hearing ANY quotes you might be aware of wherein EITHER of those gentlemen indicate that they would vote for something such as this!!!
 
I won't hold my breath waiting for a response, I know that you're busy.
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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