Bond Issue

chmoore----

Georgia Tech is introducing an online, Master Degree program in Computer Science, cost for two years (MS)? $7,000.

Enrollment will be 10,000 students. They intend to change the paradigm associated with tenure, brick and mortar, and this nonsense that school costs go up 10% annually.

The state of Ohio overs online high school education. That provides parity.

Brick and mortar is wasteful.  

Vet: by the way, I have NEVER argued about college buildings being torn down. You continue to confuse me with someone else. Here's a good question for you: if Duke, etc. owned Middletown Middle School, and wanted to renovate it, would it cost more for the college to do it, or more for Middletown City Schools to do it.  And, whichever is more costly, why do think that would be?   Just 1 chmoore.

ch, where did I say that all who support the schools are "kool-aid drinkers"? I said that, just as I had a selfish reason for supporting the seniors levy, I would imagine school levy supporters have their reasons too. Check the post once again.

ch:

"Once again, none of you addressed what to do with our 90 year old monster. Ignore it for 10 more years and THEN do something/nothing about it? Under full local cost?"

OK, THEN WHY DO WE SEE 100+ YEAR OLD BUILDINGS ON THE NOTRE DAME, DUKE, AND OTHER PRESIGIOUS COLLEGE CAMPUSES THAT SEEM TO HAVE GREAT SUCCESS IN EDUCATING THE YOUNGER PEOPLE? THEY GET A GOOD EDUCATION OUT OF OLD BUILDINGS. BY YOUR LOGIC, IN ORDER FOR THE YOUNG PEOPLE TO RECEIVE A GOOD EDUCATION FROM THESE UNIVERSITIES, ALL OLD BUILDINGS NEED TO BE TORN DOWN AND REPLACED BY NEWER, MORE MODERN FACILITIES.

ch:

Please answer the questions: (1) what is your long-term plan for the middle school?

UPGRADE THE SCHOOL TO PROVIDE WHAT WOULD BE OFFERED IN YOUR NEW SCHOOL BUILDINGS. VAIL (OLD MIDD. HIGH TO ME) HAS LASTED FOR WHAT, CLOSE TO 100 YEARS. DOUBT VERY SERIOUSLY THAT WE WILL GET THAT MILEAGE OUT OF THE NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL YOU ARE PROPOSING.

ch:

2) Why punish all the students because of some?

I THOUGHT WE HAD OTHER ALTERNATIVES TO EDUCATING THE STUDENTS THAT DIDN'T PERFORM AS WELL AS THE MAINSTREAM. ISN'T THE PURPOSE OF THE ALTERNATIVE EDUCATION TO PREVENT STUDENTS FROM FAILING AND DROPPING OUT ALTOGETHER? FURTHERMORE, WHY DO YOU REFER TO "PUNISHING ALL THE STUDENTS BECAUSE OF SOME"? BECAUSE THE STUDENTS DON"T GET FANCY NEW DIGS PUNISHES THEM? HOW DO YOU FIGURE?

ch:

"By the way, I have NEVER tied new schools to performance"

UHH, I BELIEVE YOU HAVE. I BELIEVE THE SCHOOL PEOPLE (PRICE) MADE THAT CLAIM BEFORE THE ELEMENTARIES WERE BUILT. SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF BUILD THE NEW SCHOOLS AND WATCH THE PERFORMANCE IMPROVE.

ch:

"We need new/renovated buildings because the others are not functional for today's learners---at any level."

BUT CH, THE NEW BUILDINGS WITH ALL THE LATEST BELLS AND WHISTLES ARE NOT PRODUCING ANY BETTER RESULTS THAN THE OLD BUILDINGS DID. THAT SUGGESTS THAT THE "FUNCTIONALITY FOR TODAY'S LEARNERS" AS YOU PUT IT, DOESN'T TRANSLATE TO AUTOMATIC IMPROVEMENT. AS OF THIS DATE, YOU CAN NOT MAKE THAT STATEMENT WITH ANY VALIDITY. IT HASN'T PROVEN TO BE SO IN THE ELEMENTARIES.

NOW, ADDRESS MY QUESTION TO YOU, WHICH YOU FAILED TO DO.

HAVE THE NEW ELEMENTARIES GIVEN US ANY BETTER RESULTS, AFTER A SUFFICIENT NUMBER OF YEARS, COMPARED TO THE PERFORMANCE FROM THE OLD ELEMENTARIES? AND IF SO, 45 MILLION MORE? OW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE TO DATE FROM THE NEW SCHOOLS?

I STILL MAINTAIN THAT THE CORRECT CURRICULUM, PRESENTED IN THE CLASSROOM WITH THE PROPER TECHNIQUE THAT WILL ATTRACT THE INTEREST OF THE STUDENT, COUPLED WITH A CONTROLLED CLASSROOM ATMOSPHERE AND STUDENT PARTICIPATION, FREE OF INTERRUPTIONS AND PROBLEM STUDENTS, WILL GET THE JOB DONE, NO MATTER HOW OLD THE BUILDING IN WHICH THAT CLASSROOM RESIDES. IT IS CONTENT DELIVERED TO THE STUDENT AND STUDENT INTEREST THAT TRUMPS NEW/OLD BUILDINGS IMO. THE FOCUS IS WHAT THE STUDENT IS ABSORBING, NOT WHERE THEY ARE SITTING.   

chmoore....again....if I used your analogy, you would be the cause of the housing market collapse in 2008, because everyone in the United States, deserved a house. As they deserved a house, which they could not afford, the market crashed, all your fault based upon same analogy.

I believe countless individuals, myself included, have stated updating the features which might be providing a better return Cost of Ownership such as heating, would be a consideration as an alternative. The argument, "we have to grab that state money" is akin to a compulsive shopper buying the 51st pair of shoes, because it was on sale, the deal too good to pass up?

Raising taxes when Middletown is so down in its property valuation just adds to a dismal situation, and economic pain, not creating a catalyst for growth and prosperity.

The prudent strategy would be be await to see how Middletown turns around with that expansive growth from the Atriium and Cincinnati State, not load additional tax burden on a ship already sinking. Usually, it has been my observation chmoore, that when a boat is sinking, you throw water out of it, not pour it in. But....there are too many compulsive shoppers in Middletown, that spend like they have the use of others credit cards, they do. Until Middletown adults act like West Chester and Springboro, the city and its residents continue to sink underwater.

City hall as all the life rafts and preservers. The others----about to perish with such nonsensical overload of debt.  .      

KTF1179/Acclaro//Vet:  Once again, none of you addressed what to do with our 90 year old monster.  Ignore it for 10 more years and THEN do something/nothing about it? Under full local cost?  Never addressed the other questions that I asked.  Vet, it's ok, in your opinion, to have your "selfish reasons" but anyone who wants to support the school levy for ANY reason is a "kool-aid drinker."  Please answer the questions: (1) what is your long-term plan for the middle school?  (2) Why punish all the students because of some?  Perhaps, just like when all the rest of us went to school----including me---students didn't perform to their potential. I know I didn't.     By the way, I have NEVER tied new schools to performance.  We need new/renovated buildings because the others are not functional for today's learners---at any level.    Just 1 chmoore.

Acclaro: good point about the one room school house. North, South and Central Schools all lasted less than 80 years  Each were replaced with unair conditioned buildings because that''s what they had in the early '50s. Each one room school house was ultimately replaced by the "newer, better version."  Thank goodness our forefathers provided...

ch, please see ktf1179 and acclaros posts. I rest my case. The school supporters and school admin. still tie new facilities to better performance. You are attempting to do it here. Again, we do have a glimpse of that philosophy with the new elementaries. They have been in place long enough to develop a trend. Question for you......Look at the student performance with the old elementaries of a decade ago and compare the performance with students educated in the new elementaries. Any significant improvement? 45 million worth? Was it worth it to build new elementaries as to ROI?

Yes I voted for the seniors levy for selfish reasons. We use their transportation services for the wife in the wheelchair. To be fair, I would suspect people who vote for the school levies do it for the same reason-the need for the service. Your point is?

"OH, AND STANKY, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU LEFT OLD BUDDY. WHERE DID YOU GO? KINDA MISSED ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT THE SCHOOLS. ENJOY ch's RESPONSES THOUGH. EXCELLENT"

MY MISTAKE.......SMARTMAN.

If we had academic performance like Springboro and Mason, then a new school would make sense. But to say a New School would bring about better performance is just a lie. All new schools are going to do is trick new people not from this area into thinking that Middletown has great schools when in fact the test scores just don't show it.

Just look at what people on what GreatSchools.org rate Middletown Schools. http://www.zillow.com/middletown-oh/schools/

Besides I would like my $8.00 a month go to repaving our streets. That alone will increase property values, which will in turn increase revenues to the schools. Imagine that ;)

ch:

"when I get to spend $8.00/month more on my taxes so we can have a new middle school and RENOVATED----which people talk about on here---high school."

JUST CURIOUS....AND WHAT WILL THE NEW MIDDLE SCHOOL AND RENOVATED HIGH SCHOOL GET US FOR OUR MONEY? DID IT GET ANY OF US ANYTHING (OTHER THAN FANCY NEW SCHOOLS) WITH THE $45 MILLION BOND APPROVAL MONEY SPENT ON THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS? KINDA PROVES THAT NEW FACILITIES DON'T NECESSARILY GET US IMPROVED PERFORMANCE, DOESN'T IT? DO YOU THINK YOU RECEIVED A GOOD ROI ON YOUR ELEMENTARY BOND APPROVAL VOTE?

ch:

"Get rid of that giant elephant of the 90 year old "MHS" which is so outdated and inadequate and get a replacement at no-cost (the state owes us $40 million which will be completely lost if we do nothing"

"COMPLETELY FREE"? HOW? THE STATE IS CHIPPING IN ON THE COST BUT NOT PAYING FOR THE ENTIRE THING, RIGHT? IF SO, THEN WHY ARE WE BEING ASKED TO VOTE ON A BOND LEVY? OUR SHARE OF THE DEAL, RIGHT?

ch:

"when I get to spend $8.00/month more on my taxes"
"Heck, I spend almost $8.00/month on the senior citizens levy"

BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT. THE OLD "BUT IT'LL ONLY COST YOU A FEW CUPS OF COFFEE PER MONTH" ROUTINE DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE. IT'S ALL ABOUT PUTTING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD NO MATTER WHAT THE AMOUNT. THE JOURNAL COULD BE ONLY TEN BUCKS A MONTH, BUT IF YOU NEVER READ IT OR FIND IT SUBPAR, YOU STOP SUBSCRIBING TO IT DON'T YOU. SAME HERE WITH ME. I DON'T SEE ANY VALUE ADDED ISSUES NOR REASONABLE PROGRESS WITH THE SCHOOLS, THEREFORE, I VOTE NO ON ALL LEVIES. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT 8 BUCKS A MONTH ISN'T MUCH TO ASK, BUT ISN'T THE REAL CONCERN HERE WHAT WE'RE ALL GETTING FOR OUR MONEY EVERY TIME THEY ASK FOR MORE? THE DATA DOESN'T LIE. ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE PROGRESS OF THE SCHOOL PERFORMANCE GIVEN THE MONEY SPENT ON THEIR GRAND SCHEME OVER THE LAST THREE DECADES? WHAT HAS ENDEARED YOU TO OFFER YOUR SUPPORT WHEN REASONABLE PROGRESS HASN'T BEEN MADE, GIVEN THE MANY LEVIES THAT HAVE PASSED?


OH, AND STANKY, I DIDN'T KNOW YOU LEFT OLD BUDDY. WHERE DID YOU GO? KINDA MISSED ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT THE SCHOOLS. ENJOY ch's RESPONSES THOUGH. EXCELLENT.

I'd say...when I get to spend $8.00/month more on my taxes so we can have a new middle school and RENOVATED----which people talk about on here---high school.   Get rid of that giant elephant of the 90 year old "MHS" which is so outdated and inadequate and get a replacement at no-cost (the state owes us $40 million which will be completely lost if we do nothing.  There...that ought to start your head to burst.  (JK)    chmoore, my friend.  Heck, I spend almost $8.00/month on the senior citizens levy.

Vet: thanks for using your "trump card" early. This way we don't have to wonder when it's going to happen.  It makes everyone so edgy.  Good choice!  Now, see how easy that is, and how helpful for the entire group?  "6 out of 26 indicators"....it does have a nice ring to it.    chmoore

I don't think Mort or Picard served on council together. Mort was brought in by Judy,BFF'S you know.