Home | Yearly News Archive | Advertisers | Blog | Contact Us |
|
Tuesday, May 14, 2024 |
|
What a mess!!! |
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Author | |
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: Mar 25 2011 at 2:26am |
Rem,
You didn't come off that way...at least you didn't appear so to me.
Besides, it appears that smart__ses are welcome here. (They still allow ME to post!!!)
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
rem 1187
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jan 25 2011 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Was just cking, did not mean to come off as a smart__s. I found this thread although at times going in different directions quite interesting. As in another thread, I stated it comes down to leadership and following the law and a plan that as Mr. Presta laid out on his first post focus's on the real problems.
|
|
VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nope, the mess is still here....and, they're still occuping the city building and sitting behind council's desk every other Tuesday. But, it was fun discussing those associated with the mess. |
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
A resident recently said "this is the most important thing that has happened in Middletown in the last 50 years.”
Another resident said "Middletown has municipal government rife with corruption."
Of course, just because a resident said it, doesn't necessarily make a statement true.
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
rem 1187
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jan 25 2011 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Did we get rid of the mess? |
|
rem 1187
MUSA Immigrant Joined: Jan 25 2011 Status: Offline Points: 30 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is a tech school. I hope all of staff and middletown knows this. Oxford, Athens B.G.S.U far from it. To bad small steps couldn't have been applied to this great experiment. One building two courses with expectations set very low. Would love to go down to a bar that served a great micro-I.P.A with some steamed clams and a upbeat crowd. Alot of dropouts in two year programs.
|
|
Bill
MUSA Citizen Joined: Nov 04 2009 Status: Offline Points: 710 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The big problem with this deal is that more taxpayer funds will be used to make it happen than we will get back in the form of increased tax revenue.
|
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Mr. Presta - only one guess should be sufficient, don't you think? Once again, I'll state the obvious; I don't mind spending taxpayer money, but when you do it, it had better succeed!! The proven track record of our city council to properly manage an economic development makes this chancy proposal. Also, just because one would be crazy not to take this offer, doesn't mean it's going to happen!!! You are absolutely correct when you point to the money already spent is just the downpayment on this whole development. My post above about literally turning this into a college town may be the solution to every point you listed above. If nothing else, apathy will either disappear or be replaced. What will replace the apathy if this doesn't happen?
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I admit that I am not a culinary school graduate, but a feel I must correct the unnamed “college official’s” recipe for a “college in a box”!!! The missing ingredient is NOT water. I believe what he/she should’ve said is: “Just add MONEY!!!” Does anyone need three guesses whose money our vaunted city officials plan to use??? |
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Just think of the number of retired Armco management teaching business classes on campus, the attorneys in town teaching paralegal classes, and all the adjunct professor roles everyone would have. ust imagine the guest lecture series. I think S. Main to easily handle 5,000 students in some of those 30,000s ft homes. And at Halloween, for a month, The movie theater runs with The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Now where will they place Sigma Chi and Kappa Alpha Theta?
|
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
South Main Street houses as FRAT CENTRAL!!! With the Sorg Mansion as the President of Middletown University house! lol
|
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
OMG!!! Why stop there? We could actually have the university offer classes on how to run a government and they COULD BE THE GOVERNMENT!!! Think of the practical, hands-on experience; think of the resume boost out of college. "I graduated with a four yr degree and a term on city council!" lmao
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
TonyB, I wish this would have such potential, I'd love to live in a college town. I guess we do, with MUM's presence, but you are right about the concept. I'm not certain if Cincinnati State has those types of funds, but it is a pleasant thought isn't it. Something in the back of my mind makes me think this is something already conceptualized in the evolving Master Plan.
Aftre reading the article, I have no doubt Cincinnati State thinks this is a great move for them, having all of Middletown to shape for their needs downtown. I believe I saw the Cincinnati State President driving around the Highlands area house hunting this afternoon. Lets hope they don't allow frats and sororities at CS, or we'll have another Oxford on our hands. But, the court would love the revenue from fines and disorderly conduct. The traffic citations will come with or without the dorms.
|
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
acclaro - why stop there??? I just had a marvelous idea. Let's become a college town, literally!!! All of those vacant lots where we are "reshaping" our housing portfolio? Let's give them to university engineering depts and let them build eco friendly, energy efficient new houses. All the empty industrial and factory areas? How about giving them away to universities to rehab and build 21st century technology? If we play our cards right, we could even get a state of the art stadium built!!! Think about all the college profesors that would move to town and pay those income taxes!!! Sorg Opera House? Rebuilt and turned into a Creative and Performing Arts Center. The Studio? Rebuilt and the new School of Film. Can you imagine how many dorm rooms we're going to need!!!
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
TonyB, I concur with your position. I also agree with the greassroots movement. It would not take much, just a corrdinated effort and getting people to the polls. There is sufficient time to get candiates in line who are worthy and interested in reshaping Middletown. I'm not certain about the candidates nor interest, for many, the problem is time, not interest. Not everyone can walk across from the FB& T building, or drive from Hamilton to the historic house on Main timely.
I agree with your post as well as albeith a Dem or Repub, both are really no different, just pandering to different groups. I prefer the Independant as well. Butler Cty has more RHINO's than any county in Ohio IMHO, including Tony Marconi, and many others, whom sit/sat on council.
Finally, I am getting a kick out of the Cincinnati State scenario. The reality appears State is getting all of downtown, to create their own Oxford, Ada, Athens, or other small town where the college runs the town area, with a key from the city. They also get all the 12 or so established bars, so as one of the Chairs said making the visit to downtwn, as there is nothing else, they really are a "college in a box", put some water in, and the bars, everything, are here. And as an added benefit, you get the bike paths.
Now when will those students elect to stay close to their roots in Middletown upon graduation, like they do in Oxford, and other communities? Welcome Cincinnati State, you have a greenfield to call your own. It used to be downtown Middletown. Soon, it will be yours.
|
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
acclaro - of course I don't mind. I only addressed my comments to Mr. Presta because he started this thread and it was his post that I was responding to. Your responses as well as Viet Vet and several others have been most enlightening. Respectful discussion and debate are the hallmarks of true democracy.
Mr. Presta - don't you think that in some small way we all seem to have the same problem as our elected leaders, that they are above the law. It seems nowadays, that so long as you know what the law is, it's ok to break it because "it's me, it's ok"? We seem to have a disrespect for the law because there are so many and at times contradictory. I do like the T. Roosevelt quote, "Obedience of the law is not a request, it's a demand." It would be alot easier if the laws were simplified and there were few, if any, exceptions. Enforcement would also be much easier. It also seems that elected officials think that since "they are the law" they no longer have to obey the law. If anything, they should realize that a government official, whether elected or employed, they should avoid even the appearance of breaking the law. Yes, I know, easier said than done.
As for the small group who influences city decisions, it seems that it has been like that in this town for as long as I can remember. Money buys influence and those with money get to do alot of "influencing' in this town. Only a well-organized, grassroots movement can overcome that kind of influence.
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
ORC 705.58: " the member of council serving as chairman shall act as city manager and perform all the duties of such office"
Mike, would this not have been the responsibility of Larry Mulligan, is mayor, he serves as 'Chair' of counsel. Under my interpretation, the meeting oversight by the Law Director was a violation of the Code. Thoughts?
Everything loos to be a green light for Cincinnati State. Everyone on board where they are land-locked, and seem to be salivating. Why? What makes this deal so attractive. Chairs of Departments stating they'd be fool to passon what Middletown has offered? What truly has Middletown offered. It fits their students 'like a glove'? Driving up and down the highway fits their students like a glove at $4.00/ gal.
Where do these people in academia come from. Aren't renovation costs outlasndish or are they reasonable? Everyone at Cincinnato State selling their Hyde Park homes to move to Middletown? The city providing all empty buildings because no one downtown and Cincinnatio State thinks they are in heaven, 7-8 miles off the interstate, a good 20 minute drive, when > 80% of Cincy State students also work fulltime?
The universe has changed. East is west, bad is good, Chairs who teach business technology can't crunch numbers? Welcome Cincinnati State, forget about the fact MUM's enrollemnt is far below MUH, you'll be just fine. No, your students won't mind driving 30 miles each way, and there are plenty of 4000 vacant sq ft homes to rent, where you can cram 30 people in a rent deal.
I guess they are truly renting a whole town. Then having lunch breaks over at PAC daily, or the Jug. What a plan.
t
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Speaking of the apathy of our citizenry, I should once again mention that, at a minimum, there will be FOUR city council seats up for grabs this November!!! (The mayoral seat, the other two at-large seats, and the remaining term of the Ward One seat.) Now is the time to find four good candidates and begin the process!!!
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
IMHO, a small group of influential private individuals sets the priorities for our city.
Who is supposed to set the priorities??? Our elected city council. The "hired hand" (the city manager) is supposed to "be the administrative head of the municipal government under the direction and supervision of the council and who shall hold office at the pleasure of the council." (Per ORC 705.58)
On a related note, please recall recently when our City Manager was absent. City Council and the Law Director flaunted the law, thereby fueling speculation about the City Manager's status. The Ohio Revised Code is quite clear on how temporary absences of the city manager are to be handled:
There was no record of the Law Director having been duly appointed "acting City Manager" in any minutes of Council meeting. All it would've taken was a simple motion and vote, but that is too much to ask of our IMPERIAL city government. As usual, they consider themselves ABOVE the law!!!
|
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
TonyB, I hope you don't mind me responding as your pt seemed to be focused upon Mr. Presta. With technology, including this forum, which provides the internet access site and a plethora of viewpoints usually supported by facts. So, this site is actually quite beneficial to the citizens and virtually all residents have access to the internet site, albeit MUM, the library, or own personal ownership. Could more residents view Middletownusa and aren't aware of it? Yes. Are there other means of reaching residents? If course. Another website, flyers, blogs, tweets, and the least ineffective to date....the face to face meetings.
I suppose from what I have read and heard, many tune in to this ite, so that's a good start associated with the apathy problem. Could it be better coordinated. Yes. Is there anyone willing to take the lead? i have no idea, as no one has come forward to date. If quality candidates can't be found, and prominent ones put in by MMF, then the cycle continues. The same with voting; if voters don't vote against the stautus uo, there is no change. Are there bright spots? I think the actions of the rd Ward representative have been commendable.
To your other point regarding Mayor vs City Manager. My biggest concern is in theory, the city manager is taken out of the politics, and the Mayor is the city or municipal cheerleader. He/she focuses upon ED and getting key issues moved through on levies passing or defeating. Maybe the solution in Middletown is to combine both and have a full-time paid Mayor, that is voted upon every 4 years. Politics would continue to seep in, but at least the constituents would have the opportunity to remedy a problem as a majority instead of reliance upon the "hired gun", in this case, arguably, put in by a very select minority of residents.
|
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Mr. Presta, thank you for your insightful post. Your list of problems that our city faces is a microcosm of what our country faces. I agree with acclaro that your no. 5 should move to no.1.
The apathy of our citizens seems puzzling until you recognize how out of touch our leaders are to citizens. That, IMHO, is why special interests dominate decision making in all levels of government. It is much easier to focus a group on one problem than it is to educate them on how one decision influences many other aspects of government. How to educate the public and get them actively engaged in public policy decisions on a local level is a real challenge in our technology driven, stay at home, stick your head in the sand world we've created. You certainly can't mandate participation, yet across the globe you see other people fighting for the rights and privledges that we take for granted and ignore (to our detriment, I might add). A part of your no. 2 problem might also include the lack of education in civics and why it is essential in a free society for citizens to actively engage in the political process. Until our children are taught that with rights come responsibilities we will continue to see the few rule the many.
Do you see our local form of government as a problem? A city manager hired by an elected body doesn't seem to be a very responsive nor imaginative way to do the business of government. An administration that doesn't respond to the needs and wishes of its populace is never going to come up with the solutions to the problems you have listed. Who actually sets the priorities for our city? A hired hand instead of an elected official?
|
|
acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Mike, you are spot-on. If I may, I'd add URGENCY. And, move 5 up to no. 1. Because if you have a community that simply doesn't care nor recognize they are being robbed and run over by the city, but don't care, self interest, poor leadership, all of the above, will simply put, continue to be tolerated. The crown jewel in your calculus, and the success or failure is apathy, and creation of outrage. Time is running out. The meltdown in housing will be a generation problem if not longer. Middletown doesn't have that luxury of time my friend. Yes, the city workers may hang on, because of AK's tax base, but the destruction to the resident will be irrepairable. And yet, they don't seem to care.
Don't think the smart ones don't see these problems. Were are the town's most prominent resident's grown children? Living anywhere but Middletown.
|
|
Mike_Presta
MUSA Council Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
In my humble opinion, keeping the former downtown afloat is not even in the top ten list of greatest problems that this city faces. That is something that should be left to market forces. City hall should be as accommodating as possible (as they should be in any other area of Middletown) but we must stop squandering our city’s treasure (and our children’s and grandchildren’s futures) on one harebrained scheme after another that benefit only a few.
It is really that simple, in my humble opinion. Solve these problems and we will soon have a thriving, prosperous city. Then all we have to do is keep it. If we do not solve those five first, and quickly, I doubt we will ever have a chance to get more specific. I once posted a list of about seven to ten specific action items, but there is no chance of implementation without the forgoing occuring first. I can dig them up if it ever looks like we are making strides towards accomplishing the above. |
|
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
|
|
VietVet
MUSA Council Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
TonyB- you asked, I respond.
IMO, the #1 problem in this city is the lack of competent leadership constantly making wrong decisions, poor planning and heading in the wrong direction. Without competent leadership, both on council and in the city building, we are going nowhere as evidenced by the past 30+ years. All of the players have fit the profile described above resulting in the inept game plan for the city. All 5 of the things you have listed pertain to the ineffectiveness of past and current city leadership. Again, like a broken record, we need to do a complete removal of council, followed by the installation of competent, non-self interest type people who care only for growing this town by creating the correct direction and priorities. The new council will remove the city manager, law director, planning director, gut the eco. devel. department and start over with new people with ideas similar to what has been suggested on this very forum. If you don't change the failed direction, priorities and thinking, you will always have the same results. JMO |
|
TonyB
MUSA Citizen Joined: Jan 12 2011 Location: Middletown, OH Status: Offline Points: 631 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm still waiting for someone to step up and elaborate on what they see as the No. 1 problem in Middletown. So, in the spirit of "stepping up" let me list IMHO what I see as our problems:
1. Given current revenues, how do we provide essential services (police/fire/water) in the most effective and efficient manner.
2. How do we use our remaining revenues to repair our infrastructure in a timely, cost-efficient manner.
3. What legislative actions need to be taken to encourage private investment within the city.
4. What public/private initiatives can we encourage to develop our residential/educational/cultural opportunities within the city.
5. What laws, rules and regulations need aproved, amended or removed from our city.
Hopefully, that will stimulate some debate.
|
|
Post Reply | Page 123 4> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.
Copyright ©2024 MiddletownUSA.com | Privacy Statement | Terms of Use | Site by Xponex Media | Advertising Information |