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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007
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Posted: Oct 24 2012 at 11:31pm |
Pacman I’m not blaming the Inspection Group for this problem, however they were part of this mess. The inspection of Section 8 properties and the completion of the paperwork in a timely manner is critical to the tenant and the landlords. I agree vivian, Although I believe the issue was computer compatiblity among the 3 companies Mr. Adkins hired the Inspection Group while CONSOC had the Section 8 Program and it was a mess. When Nelson & Assoc took over the program they were using the Inspection Group and that didn’t work out either. The inspections are currently being completed by Chase Construction of Blue Ash, Ohio. I believe that the City received 3 or 4 bids for the Section 8 Program and Nelson was chosen. Vivian n the beginning there were 3 original bids, CONSOC, Nelson & Assc. and one other. CONSOC was the highest and I believe it was schivione and Marconi who pushed for CONSOC
And I totally agree with you. The city should never have requested the last 800 vouchers. I would agree with this except the # should be 1200 not 800
The market value of any product is what the public is willing to pay for it. How do you know Slumlords don't own section 8 housing? Do you know all 500+ landlords personally? I stand corrected…No I do not know all 500 landlords. Vivian, If you give me some time, I'll dig out my list of all 500+ Sections 8 landlords Middletown. Or if you like it quicker contact Mike P and have it email it you. It is about 500 pages long
The city is not investigating Section 8…it is my understanding this is being done by HUD. If this is a HUD issue in dealing with Defraudin the federal goverment, wouldn't this case be down in Cincinnati rather than in Middletown? If I were filing fraudlent tax returns with the IRS and receiving checks, would that not also go to a federal court. Not sure, just wondering??
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digger-2
MUSA Immigrant
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Posted: Oct 25 2012 at 10:18am |
Name the one MUSA participant who has always complimented the Community Development Prosecutor and blames everyone else for our Section 8 problems?
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 19 2012
Location: middletown
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Points: 952
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Posted: Oct 25 2012 at 2:47pm |
why has our city admin. been so fixated on the sec8 program instead of facing real problems of our city? the best way to reduce the number of vouchers is to reduce the need for them. that can be done with a four letter word JOBS!!! IS THIS ALL a smoke screen to hide their real inablity to move this city forward?
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Bill
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Posted: Oct 25 2012 at 2:58pm |
...and the Sec 8 landlord trolls continue to come out into daylight and try to change the subject.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
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Posted: Oct 25 2012 at 3:40pm |
over the hill wrote:
why has our city admin. been so fixated on the sec8 program instead of facing real problems of our city? the best way to reduce the number of vouchers is to reduce the need for them. that can be done with a four letter word JOBS!!! IS THIS ALL a smoke screen to hide their real inablity to move this city forward? |
Interesting wording here over the hill. Given the stereotypical Section 8 handout recipient, I would hazard to guess that if this city provided those receiving taxpayer handouts jobs, we would still have a certain percentage that wouldn't work and be part of the solution and continue to be part of the problem. I would imagine we have some folks on Section 8 that actually need some help.......but should only be given that help for a short period of time.... not taking an endless handout and not making a career of scamming the taxpayer. It is the career Section 8 people that really need to be booted out to fend for themselves. The best way to reduce the vouchers is to slowly dissolve the program entirely and force the moochers to fend for themselves......or starve trying. Having compassion for people who really need the help is honorable. Having compassion for people who won't help themselves is being a fool and we taxpayers have been fools for far too long with some of these people. Screen 'em, weed 'em out and monitor the ones remaining. JMO
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over the hill
MUSA Citizen
Joined: Oct 19 2012
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Posted: Oct 25 2012 at 4:37pm |
I AGREE COMPLETLY THE PROGRAM SHOULD BE FOR THOSE IN NEED NOT A WAY OF LIFE
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OVER SIGHT
MUSA Immigrant
Joined: Oct 21 2012
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Points: 12
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Posted: Oct 27 2012 at 11:35pm |
HELL IN NEW YORK THERE WAS AN OUTRAGE OVER A SECTION 8 REDUCTION A FEELING OF FAILURE ON THE PART OF THE ELECTED OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE EVEN A TERMINATION OF THE HEAD OF STAFF. I FEEL FOR THE 3000 SCARED FAMILIES THAT THOSE VOUCHERS HELPED. WELL HERE IN MIDDLETOWN AT THE LAST SECTION 8 MEETING WHEN THE VOTE WAS TO GO AHEAD WITH 1000 VOUCHER REDUCTION I THOUGHT I HEARD A SINGLE CLAP IN THE AUDIENCE BOY I WONDER WHO THAT WAS?
Elected officials and advocates for low-income housing expressed outrage over the move and criticized the authority for failing to do enough to prevent 3,000 families from losing the vouchers they had been given.
THIS IS WHAT WAS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED IF ANYBODY BOTHERED TO READ ALL OF IT.
Elected officials and advocates for low-income housing expressed outrage over the move and criticized the authority for failing to do enough to prevent 3,000 families from losing the vouchers they had been given.
“It is shocking that the New York City Housing Authority is breaking its word to over 3,000 Section 8 voucher holders,” said City Councilman Bill de Blasio, a Democrat from Brooklyn.
Steven Banks, the attorney in chief for the Legal Aid Society, said the agency’s actions would swell the city’s family shelter system.
The Manhattan borough president, Scott M. Stringer, called for members of the authority’s governing board to resign. “I have a hunch that we’re about to be dealing with ‘Vouchergate,’ which is why we need city legislative hearings immediately,” Mr. Stringer said.
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VietVet
MUSA Council
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Posted: Oct 28 2012 at 7:19am |
“It is shocking that the New York City Housing Authority is breaking its word to over 3,000 Section 8 voucher holders,” said City Councilman Bill de Blasio, a Democrat from Brooklyn.
Steven Banks, the attorney in chief for the Legal Aid Society, said the agency’s actions would swell the city’s family shelter system.
The Manhattan borough president, Scott M. Stringer, called for members of the authority’s governing board to resign. “I have a hunch that we’re about to be dealing with ‘Vouchergate,’ which is why we need city legislative hearings immediately,” Mr. Stringer said.
JUST WONDERING IF BILL DE BLASIO, STEVEN BANKS AND SCOTT M. STRINGER AND ANY OTHER "VOUCHER/SECTION 8/HELP 'EM OUT" PROPONENTS WOULD WELCOME THESE SAME PEOPLE INTO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD OR GIVE THEM A ROOM TO SLEEP IN THEIR HOUSE? ALOT OF COMPASSIONATE TALK AND OUTRAGE HERE FOR THE LACK OF SUPPORT FOR THE POOR FROM THESE PEOPLE, BUT WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE, ME THINKS THE MOUTH IS OVERLOADING THE BUTT A BIT. WONDERING HOW MANY SECTION 8 HOUSES ARE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD?
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digger-2
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Posted: Oct 28 2012 at 12:04pm |
Going back to the 1970's, the city mostly ignored older, declining neighborhoods in favor of the Donham Plaza redevelopment plus the former downtown mall construction. Millions of tax dollars were spent on these projects while home ownership rates and property conditions in residential portions of Wards 2 and 1 (part) plummeted. The addition of Section 8 vouchers was viewed as a last resort to stabilize bad property conditions for rental properties in the above-noted areas. This was a too late cause and effect theory. The damage was already done. Government intervention is most times not the solution. Too bad that more private sector thinking wasn't present over the past 40 years. Before condemning Section 8 and landlords, I suggest that you look at history and how misguided plans brought all of this about. Will the Community Demolition Director's plans to demolish hundreds of homes in Wards 2 and 1 (part) create an environment that will promote enhanced home ownership plus ongoing property maintenance? The waste of millions of HUD funds recently has compounded an already bad situation.
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008
Location: Middletown, Ohi
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Posted: Oct 28 2012 at 12:13pm |
Digger-2 Thanks for telling the rest of the story. It is clear that everyone connected with City Hall “was asleep at the wheel”.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007
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Posted: Oct 28 2012 at 9:34pm |
Pacman wrote:
New york Times - December 18, 2009 Thousands Lose Rent Vouchers in CutbackOne of the key housing programs that helps low-income and other needy New Yorkers afford their apartments has been effectively cut off for thousands of families. City officials announced Thursday that they had stopped issuing new federal rent subsidy vouchers and were terminating the vouchers of 3,000 families who had yet to fully use them. They said they were taking those steps because of federal budget cuts and an increased demand for the vouchers in today’s economy. |
OVERSIGHT, The above quote spefically explains why the vouchers were terminated. No one was thrown out of their housing, these vouchers were vouchers that had not been fully used. Middletown's plan is to terminate vouchers as they are no longer in use. It is not to throw anyone out of their housing. The last Middletown Public Housing Authority had a hot and heavy confersation before council a woman stood up and stated she had been on Section 8 for 9 years. She appeared to be in her 40's. She also stated she was a loan processing agent. There is only one reason I can see being on Section 8 for 9 years, You are divorced and have too many kids or you are not married and have too many kids. 9 years is tooo long to be on Section 8. Many of you people on here do not seem to understand the consequences of having an excessive amount of Section 8 in a city where there are no jobs and will not be a large enough amount of jobs that pay well to support the residents here in the forseeable future. Excessive section 8 effects the education system, the attractive of businesses to Middletown, & properties values. Section 8 places a strain on public safety and all services provided by the city. the negatives go on and on while the positives are minimal. Pacman
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digger-2
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Posted: Oct 30 2012 at 11:41pm |
How very sad that you've been so quick to pass judgement on just about everyone for the past three plus years. Why don't you try a little kindness every once in awhile. You might appreciate the results. And, remember, not all landlords and S8 voucher holders break the law or mooch off of the federal dole.KINDNESS AND NOT CONDEMNATION IS MY WISH FOR YOU !!!
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VietVet
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Posted: Oct 31 2012 at 6:16am |
digger-2 wrote:
How very sad that you've been so quick to pass judgement on just about everyone for the past three plus years. Why don't you try a little kindness every once in awhile. You might appreciate the results. And, remember, not all landlords and S8 voucher holders break the law or mooch off of the federal dole.KINDNESS AND NOT CONDEMNATION IS MY WISH FOR YOU !!! |
digger,I think everyone on this forum realizes that there are people who fall on hard times and need some help once in a while. I have fallen on some hard times in the last three years with my wife having a stroke and needing someone to watch her while I run errands...however, unlike the Section 8'ers, can't get the help I need. All another story.
What angers many in society is that there are people who are sponging off the taxpayers and have been doing it for years. They stay at home smoking their cigarettes and drinking the booze while watching the high def TV, while us taxpaying fools go to work everyday, have forced taxes taken out of our paychecks which support these lazy worthless sponges. Kindness? Would be more of it if we weren't reminded of the aforementioned sponges. Condemnation will remain until the system is cleaned up, all people living off the taxpayers are audited, monitored and cleared with the bums immediately thrown off the program to fend for themselves or die trying. No mercy for the people who are not honest. THAT'S what is wrong with all these social programs today. Worthwhile intent, but dishonesty soon rears it's ugly head and the scammers come out of the gutter to collect. Section 8 might not be so bad, if you limit the number of vouchers which limit the impact in the community. Since the program inception, Middletown has WAAAYYYY more vouchers than they should have for a town this size and it has had a noticible negative impact on the community and the schools. JMO
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007
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Posted: Oct 31 2012 at 6:49pm |
DIgger, You seem to suffer from the amnesia that LH4 and a few others on here have. 1.) are you a section 8 landlord? 2.) do you live in Middletown? Pacman
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digger-2
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Posted: Oct 31 2012 at 10:27pm |
My properties are very well maintained and the tenants I have are decent citizens.
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Stanky
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Posted: Nov 01 2012 at 7:14am |
Except for elderly, you can almost spot a welfare/Section 8'er from a mile away. Moving slowly, not in a hurry, kind of "hanging out". Why be in a hurry to get anywhere when your basic needs are paid for by big brother?
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Pacman
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Posted: Nov 01 2012 at 7:10pm |
Funny how all these Landlords all have wonderful properties and wonderful tenants, yet they hide and refuse to admit they are section 8 landlords and most do not live in Middletown. This in itself should set off a few alarma bells. Pacman
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digger-2
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Posted: Nov 01 2012 at 9:57pm |
Pacman, you always seem to have such a quick trigger finger when it comes to criticizing and condemning others. Since you are the self-professed all-knowing one, we'd like to have the answers to the most perplexing problems the city faces. Please share your plans and policies that will spur private reinvestment and the return of so many needed middle-class households to older neighborhoods. Please make certain that your responses are substantive and economically sound. No more generalities or irrelevant soapbox ranting. And, speaking of anonymity, who are you anyhow?
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008
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Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 4:39am |
Okay, Digger. enough is enough!!!
You tell Pacman that:
“How very sad that you've been so quick to pass judgement on just
about everyone for the past three plus years. Why don't you try a little
kindness every once in awhile. You might appreciate the results. And, remember,
not all landlords and S8 voucher holders break the law or mooch off of the
federal dole.
KINDNESS AND NOT CONDEMNATION IS MY WISH FOR YOU !!!”
Well, I know Pacman, but before we get into that, let’s
get one thing straight:
The “dole” may not be the correct term, but yes, every
Section 8 voucher holder, and every Section 8 landlord, DOES “benefit” from the federal government at least to some extent. The landlord is GUARANTEED their rent, and
the voucher-holder pays NO MORE than 30% of their income towards their rent.
Let that sink in: Whether the voucher-holder has $100 or $1,000 per month
income, they pay NO MORE THAN 30% of it towards their rent, which may be for a
five (or more) bedroom home in any area of this city, and the landlord is
GUARANTEED that rent every month. So,
YES, both the landlord and the voucher-holder DO live off the rest of the
taxpayers—at least to that extent—every month.
I am not knocking that, I am just stating the fact and correcting YOU!
Now, back to my friend Pacman:
First, how dare YOU pass judgment on him??? I know Pacman…I’ve known him for years. And, unlike YOU, I am speaking as someone who
has the integrity to post under my actual name.
I assure that he (as you seem to want us to believe that you are) has
been a small businessman in this city during its struggling times. He and his wife worked hard and long in an
attempt to succeed, and were doing so (with NO assistance from City Hall or the federal government, I
might add). I also assure you (and I
know that others who post here that also know him will back me up on this) that
he is a KIND man. While he was healthy
(and even for a while he was semi-healthy), he was always among the first to
reach into his pocket or to write a check when others were in need, or if
troubles befell someone.
Don’t tell ME that Pacman should “try a little kindness”!!! I know him and you do not!!!
Now troubles, not of his making, have befallen him that
would have sent lesser men sniveling, yet he, in his own way strives to
contribute to our city’s well-being—if only by lending what insight he can
through these pages—and you DARE, while hiding behind the cloak of anonymity
yourself, to ask who he is???
Who
the hell are YOU???
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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digger-2
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Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 9:21am |
Mikey, if people really took you seriously, you wouldn't be compelled to vent your spleen daily on MUSA. It sounds like you've got too much unresolved anger. Peace.
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Pacman
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Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 7:45pm |
Thanks For Your Assistance Mike, It is much appreciated!! Digger, I'll contemplate an answer to your question. I am off to Cleveland Clinic to consultant a physician about some of my medical issues. I'll be back in a few days. Maybe... Pacman
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Mike_Presta
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Posted: Nov 02 2012 at 11:23pm |
digger-2 wrote:
Mikey, if people really took you seriously, you wouldn't be compelled to vent your spleen daily on MUSA. It sounds like you've got too much unresolved anger. Peace. |
Gee...thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to rush to the nearest psychoanalyst, based on your preliminary evaluation.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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MsPacman
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Posted: Nov 03 2012 at 12:48am |
HiYa Mike, I just wanted to Pop on here to take a moment to say thank you for your kind words regarding Pac. They are much appreciated. Would enjoy a visit from you soon. MsPacman
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Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. James 1:2-3
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OVER SIGHT
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Posted: Nov 06 2012 at 2:39am |
Pacman I do not disagree with you on that the HUD program could be tuned up but not at the expense or reputation of a good man such as Mr Dan Tracey. I have meet this man and he is a good man he has let people live in properties for months without paying rent through hard times. I even heard that he paid for a funeral for a man that rented from him and he was not on section 8 and still today helps with that man's family especially around the holidays. Pacman listen by reducing the number of landlords such as Mr Dan Tracy off the section 8 program the city is losing their power to govern the 1000 properties through the section 8 program. Pacman look he has been in this business for about 30 plus years and if you looked deep enough into this mans business I would want to say about 85% of his properties are paid for blocks of house all in the same neighborhoods some not so great and some in really upscale neighborhoods I would say this man could own any house in this city and rent it out to whomever or whatever he wants and that is his civil right. Pacman if he is booted off the program as you say that does not mean the properties are off or the tenants are gone. Pacman what would stop him from giving them to a trust or a llc for his kids and turn them over to a rental company who reallys is not going to care what happens to the property so case closed he will have no interest in the properties right? So Pacman being that HUD rules say he can not participate in the program with a felony but a trust is its own entity under the law and Mr Tracey will have given up his rights to the properties can stay on the program and Dan can go sit back and count the cash. Pacman trust me I know there is ways around MR Adkins plans of attacks on this program like the UC report stated page 59 [The beauty of it all is that we do not need HUD's approval to accomplish our goals]at which in the introduction its states that HUD will have to be informed of what they are trying to do 1. To remove and replace outside the city limits of Middletown 1000 families and the term used was families not vouchers. 2. To make landlords reluctant to participate in the Section 8 program therefore decreasing the number of properties available to the voucher holders so the city can say HUD we don't need them take them back.
sounds like the citys manipulation of the Program could get them fired from being involved in the HUD program.
Pacman someone said in that report on page 59 the rules are already in place we just have to enforce them wonder who that was like I said HUD does not influence the administrator of a HUD program unless you screw up violate some civil rights and then you're fired. Pacman I would say this is what's going to happen with MPHA if they stay on the witch hunt of landlords and so called naughty tenants. Pacman what my point is that right now Doug Adkins has tried and failed to take off as many voucher holders that he can of this MPHA program you see when a voucher holder gets terminated off the program for a violation that person has the right to a hearing and this is by arbitration not the MPHA or Mr Adkins office and is heavily watched over by HUD remember civil rights. I wonder just how many hearings took place in 2009 to year to date I saw MR Adkins desk stacks of files 5 feet tall 10 feet long so how many was terminated for what a water bill that nothing to do with the program? I have heard less than 10% of the hearings went in Doug Adkins favor but Doug Adkins knows if you can take a landlord off the program like Dan Tracy wow there goes 144 sounds like selective enforcement to me I'm no attorney but I believe Doug Adkins has a law background and that oath he took to uphold civil rights just might be bending right now [stress cracks] the city might be setting itself up for a 1983 civil rights lawsuit by MR Tracy if it stays on this wrong track of harassing landlords and now prosecuting the ones that don't scare so easily such as MR Tracy all this just to reduce the enrollment of future properties in the program that in itself is fraud against this program and the voucher holders which are tax paying citizens of this city should call HUD and HUD should remove the cities oversight of the program for the misrepresentation of what the city is telling HUD about not needing the vouchers and the city council's embarrassing ability to stand up and make the correct decisions to help this program and the voucher holders so that it can become better and serve the people of this city and state in the way it was meant to. Pacman like it or not the OLD LADY in New York holding that torch says it all its America its what sets us apart from the rest of this crazy world we take care of our own no matter what all I can say is'''' SPEAK UP HUD WHATS THE PROBLEM get involved.'''' where is the over sight and higher power when you need them?????????????????????
oversight
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OVER SIGHT
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Posted: Nov 06 2012 at 2:43am |
Pacman I do not disagree with you on that the HUD program could be tuned up but not at the expense or reputation of a good man such as Mr Dan Tracey. I have meet this man and he is a good man he has let people live in properties for months without paying rent through hard times. I even heard that he paid for a funeral for a man that rented from him and he was not on section 8 and still today helps with that man's family especially around the holidays. Pacman listen by reducing the number of landlords such as Mr Dan Tracy off the section 8 program the city is losing their power to govern the 1000 properties through the section 8 program. Pacman look he has been in this business for about 30 plus years and if you looked deep enough into this mans business I would want to say about 85% of his properties are paid for blocks of house all in the same neighborhoods some not so great and some in really upscale neighborhoods I would say this man could own any house in this city and rent it out to whomever or whatever he wants and that is his civil right. Pacman if he is booted off the program as you say that does not mean the properties are off or the tenants are gone. Pacman what would stop him from giving them to a trust or a llc for his kids and turn them over to a rental company who reallys is not going to care what happens to the property so case closed he will have no interest in the properties right? So Pacman being that HUD rules say he can not participate in the program with a felony but a trust is its own entity under the law and Mr Tracey will have given up his rights to the properties can stay on the program and Dan can go sit back and count the cash. Pacman trust me I know there is ways around MR Adkins plans of attacks on this program like the UC report stated page 59 [The beauty of it all is that we do not need HUD's approval to accomplish our goals]at which in the introduction its states that HUD will have to be informed of what they are trying to do 1. To remove and replace outside the city limits of Middletown 1000 families and the term used was families not vouchers. 2. To make landlords reluctant to participate in the Section 8 program therefore decreasing the number of properties available to the voucher holders so the city can say HUD we don't need them take them back.
sounds like the citys manipulation of the Program could get them fired from being involved in the HUD program.
Pacman someone said in that report on page 59 the rules are already in place we just have to enforce them wonder who that was like I said HUD does not influence the administrator of a HUD program unless you screw up violate some civil rights and then you're fired. Pacman I would say this is what's going to happen with MPHA if they stay on the witch hunt of landlords and so called naughty tenants. Pacman what my point is that right now Doug Adkins has tried and failed to take off as many voucher holders that he can of this MPHA program you see when a voucher holder gets terminated off the program for a violation that person has the right to a hearing and this is by arbitration not the MPHA or Mr Adkins office and is heavily watched over by HUD remember civil rights. I wonder just how many hearings took place in 2009 to year to date I saw MR Adkins desk stacks of files 5 feet tall 10 feet long so how many was terminated for what a water bill that nothing to do with the program? I have heard less than 10% of the hearings went in Doug Adkins favor but Doug Adkins knows if you can take a landlord off the program like Dan Tracy wow there goes 144 sounds like selective enforcement to me I'm no attorney but I believe Doug Adkins has a law background and that oath he took to uphold civil rights just might be bending right now [stress cracks] the city might be setting itself up for a 1983 civil rights lawsuit by MR Tracy if it stays on this wrong track of harassing landlords and now prosecuting the ones that don't scare so easily such as MR Tracy all this just to reduce the enrollment of future properties in the program that in itself is fraud against this program and the voucher holders which are tax paying citizens of this city should call HUD and HUD should remove the cities oversight of the program for the misrepresentation of what the city is telling HUD about not needing the vouchers and the city council's embarrassing ability to stand up and make the correct decisions to help this program and the voucher holders so that it can become better and serve the people of this city and state in the way it was meant to. Pacman like it or not the OLD LADY in New York holding that torch says it all its America its what sets us apart from the rest of this crazy world we take care of our own no matter what all I can say is'''' SPEAK UP HUD WHATS THE PROBLEM get involved.'''' where is the over sight and higher power when you need them
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