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AIN'T NO WAY!!!!!!!!

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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:01am
Thanks for the advice, got a dictionary...
 
slander - a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/slander
 
What word do you think I should be using?
 
 
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Jlaubach View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jlaubach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:04am

Murray,

Thanks for the feedback. However, just some clarity; I dont feel that I am wasting my time on this issue. People have concerns and so do I. Also,I don't feel your labeling ( inexperience/immaturity ) are reasonable. Disagree with me you may but I ask that you address me on substance and not names and assertions. I am mature enough to come to this site and have true discussion with people who dont agree with me. To be fair, I invite you to next Tuesday's council meeting. I have no issues with addressing anyone and having a full conversation in light of public record.
 I understand the charter well and have read it many times. This is not about council telling the judge what to do. You are correct, we dont have that authority( As a matter of fact this is not about the Judge at all). This about the appearance to the community on the hiring of an ex-commissioner less than six days after we agreed to create this positon. My point is this; I and other members, created this position with good faith that we were given all the proper information. Looking back, I ( and other council members) dont feel this was the case. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". It wont happen again. 
To your other point, I and other people on council are extremely motivated. There is business to get done and we will get it done in a professional mannger. As we speak I and others are addressing the pressing matters you stated above. We are not incomptitent and can multi-task.
Thanks,
Josh 
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:23am
The fact of the matter is this Josh, there is absolutely no law that says the Court has to go to the council with this matter at all.  The court does it out of courtesy to the council.  If they wanted to circumvent council all together, they could do so without any issue. 
 
If the council is going to try and micro manage the court, it is overstepping its boundaries and could cause the court to not involve the council in future matters. 
 
Regardless of who the judge hired, it doesn't matter.  He could hire his son/sister/brother/neighbor for the job, he could know DS from a prior life and knew he would be a good fit, in no way is that illegal or unethical.
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justwatching View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote justwatching Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:27am
Murray,

As you've just clearly stated, no comments are on here slanderous per your definition (which is the one I use as well). That lack being malicious, which, as the definition says, is required. The word your looking for is: opinion. These are people's opinions. That is all.
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Bobbie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:27am
Illegal - probably not, but what happened was very unethical. 
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Jlaubach View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jlaubach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:36am

Murray,

Let me try again. I nor anyone else on council is making this about the Judge or the court. I get that. Please don’t put words into my mouth or imply that we are trying to stir relations with our court. Nor are we saying that this is a specific ethics violation(even though I was briefed by city staff that an ex-commissioner could not do business with the city for up to 12months following the end of a term). What I am saying is that most likely someone knew Mr. S was going to get that job before we approved it and did not make all of council privy to that. Again, had I known that was the deal, I would not have voted for that. (Nothing against David but that DOES NOT pass the “smell test”) However, I made a mistake and assumed I was getting the info that everyone else had. No excuses for me. It won’t happen again. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until they lose that privilege.

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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:38am
Murray- Don't know who you are but you sound like you come from the problem children camp located at the city building. FYI, we are all private citizens away from the job site. However, when one occupys a municipal court position, or any fed, state, or city government job, they come under the scrutiny of the public and therefore incur the mercy/wrath of the public. If Schiavone chooses to work in a government position, he is a target for scrutiny. The comments that have been made here are published facts and are in the public domain of information. It is not slanderous to state what is public record and to state what the man actually did on previous jobs. The Municipal Court is a public entity. The judges are elected by the voting public. The whole court system is public domain INCLUDING the taxpayer funded employees. If Schiavone is now an employee, he is in the public domain.

The $5000 pay is not the point. No one ever said that the salary was the issue. The alleged "back door" hiring, council not being given all the information to make a decision on approving the position, whether Schiavone is qualified, the need for emergency legislation by Landen and the convenience of the hiring are the issues. Council may have no say in the appointment of the judicial employee but they certainly had a say in whether the position should have even existed. They could have denied this request. If they would have known it was Schiavone, and all the improprieties it presents in giving him the job, all of this may have not happened at all.

You only see this as a Schiavone hiring disaster. It is much bigger than that. This fiasco is an example of the bigger picture of the games being played by the childish leaders of this town. It is much more serious than just a Schiavone meal ticket and favoritism/council nepotism. It is the special little group of insiders that have, once again, backdoored the citizens by taking care of one of their own in a secretive manner that is not above board and should not be tolerated anymore. There is nothing wrong with AJ and Josh checking on the ordinances to see if this could be recinded and made right. At the very least, they will learn something in the process. It does not hurt to call them on this.

As to conspiracy- the city leaders do their best to do things in this town to promote the feeling of conspiracy. If they were honest, communicated openly with the people, assigned all their buddies to committees/key positions in town and stopped all of this closed door session crap, we, the people, wouldn't be thinking conspiracies all the time. Until they change, we have no choice but to think that way. We have a life, bud, and part of it is to monitor the underhanded schemes that your low-life buddies are always trying to lay on the citizens of this town.

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Mr. Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:39am

My God, Murray you may just be the biggest @#$hole I have ever read a post by. And thats hard to beat considering some of the comments people make here. How can you say there was nothing wrong with how all this went down? You are either David or his well known brother, either way this is why people dont trust this city. You do things like this and expect the citizens to just say OK thats fine. Then when someone says something you dont like you talk lawsuit, if you wanna see slanderous I can no doubt give you that, and you can sue me all you want, nothing from nothing is nothing which is just what you would get. Idiot !!

Mr. Laubach, dont sweat it, the good ol' boys scored one now you just have to score two. We have faith in you.
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:41am

Is it unethical?  No one has any information other than what was in the paper.  Everyone wants it to be unethical so that there is something to gripe about and entertain everyone for a day or two. 

"Smell test" or not, if you had voted NO and the court still wanted to hire him, they could do so without issue.  They can hire and fire at will, without the consent of cousil.
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:54am

As a non-elected city employee, he does not fall under the same umbrella as the judge.

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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:54am
Is it unethical...no!! Is it right hell no!! If council had known all the facts then they could have voted accordingly, but they did not have that info. Now you can say what you want about he courts, had council voted it down then the courts could have hired him anyway and it would have been done with out the council's approval and then we as citizens we see that a new council has taken over and wont just rubber stamp everything in front of them.
 
People can say what they want I know that some on council knew what was happening while others were keep in the dark. That Sir is a fact, I know some people in the city building and you and I both know that went down as a back door deal.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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VietVet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VietVet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:56am
Murray- doesn't the salary to pay for Schiavone's position come from the city budget? And isn't the city budget worked up by the city manager and submitted for COUNCIL'S APPROVAL? And isn't it a possibility that Council could come back and revise that budget to reflect a change to not allow the approval of the salary for this position therefore, in essence, canceling the position altogether by cutting the funding? True or not? If true, council does have some control over this position. The court can place whoever they want in the position without council's approval, but if the salary funding is cut off, it negates the court's placement, doesn't it?
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Bobbie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bobbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 10:57am
Murray - I can't even believe you would say this was ethical.  I would love to know your real name because your statements really show what type of person you are.  I am sure all of us are speculating who you are, I have my opinion of who you are -  which does explain to me why you would think this was handled ethically.
The time line is proven in more ways then just reading the Journal.  You get approval for a position onTues night and you hire someone on Fri.  Prove us wrong on that.  If he was not already choosen for this position then provide information that states they had looked for individuals that could provide this assistance to the courts. 
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spiderjohn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiderjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:00am

Nothing unethical at all.

The Court had this option.
The credentials of the person chosen have understandably created public concern.
Mr.S did not have a favorable resume from his prior court system employment.
The conditions that led to his Butler County exit SHOULD cause concern for EVERYONE, considering this new position and how Mr.S will be monitored. As mentioned prior, let's hope that he does an excellent job.
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:12am
I can neither prove, nor disprove...but neither can you.  The thing that concerns me is that everyone on this blog is feeding off of one another when no one (admittedly, including myself) has all of the information.  So to be making accusations of back door dealing is both premature and irresponsible, in my opinion.
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justwatching View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote justwatching Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:16am
I have to agree with that statement Murray. Good point.
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randy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote randy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:17am
That may be your best statement in a post Mr. Murray, but it does look bad.
Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Mike_Presta View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:37am
Murray: 
 
First, I don't recall anyone here making this about the judge except YOU!  You seem to be the ONLY one who keeps bringing that up.  The rest of us understand the relationship between a municipal court and the legislative authority of that municipality.
 
Next,  as far as your definition "slander against his good name.", well, one would have to have a good name before it could be slandered.  Check the record.
 
Also, a "public figure" does NOT cease being a public figure, in the case of a politician, on the day that he leaves office!  Get a grip!  There are people who have been retired from public life for decades and are dead and buried, yet they are still considered "public figures".  (You seem to like definitions. try this one from West's Law Dictionary: "A description applied in Libel and Slander actions, as well as in those alleging invasion of privacy, to anyone who has gained prominence in the community as a result of his or her name or exploits, whether willingly or unwillingly. One does not "lose prominence" overnight, especially when one continues one's exploits!!!)
 
Lastly, if you, or Hizzoner "Honest Dave", want to file suit, I guess the easiest target would be ME!!!  After all, I post over my REAL NAME, Mr./Ms. Murray.  I've got some time...BRING IT ON!!!
 
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Hermes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:37am
Murray - As many have stated and I also echo the statements,I don't know you & I don't care who you are. You could be Schiavones brother,his attorney or chief of police,I could care less. Your talk is nothing more than a scare tactic to intimadate the people on this site, and as you can see it doesn't work here.
 
The people of this town have a right to know the truth. If the court & city council have no dealings with each other as YOU state then why did council have to present the emergency declaration and create an ordinance for this job ? With Schiavone's record of past jobs and his involvement in criminal activity makes him the least qualified to be working for or in the courts.
 
Nothing you say even makes sense. Your lack of outrage in this case is suspect & questionable.
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:43am
I personally have no intent/nor reason to sue anyone, I'm merely stating there are legal remedies to this situation if one so chooses.
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:45am
Everyone wants blood...deep down you all know that if this isn't a back door dealing like you think it is, you will all be disappointed, not happy (as you should be)
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 11:49am
Originally posted by Hermes Hermes wrote:

If the court & city council have no dealings with each other as YOU state then why did council have to present the emergency declaration and create an ordinance for this job ? With Schiavone's record of past jobs and his involvement in criminal activity makes him the least qualified to be working for or in the courts.
  
 
Why don't you ask Josh, AJ, or any other council member if the court had to go to council with this...I assure you I'm not making things up.
 
I think your use of the phrase "criminal activity" is used rather loosely.  I'd like to see your evidence of said illegal activity...what information do you have regarding criminal activity?  Are you talking about the issue with the county court?  1. ) there were absolutely no charges ever made, if there was crime committed against you, wouldn't you prosecute?  2.) If there was criminal activity, why was he hired at another court?  Must not have been such a big deal, hmmm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hermes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Murray Murray wrote:

Everyone wants blood...deep down you all know that if this isn't a back door dealing like you think it is, you will all be disappointed, not happy (as you should be)
 
No one wants blood,what we all want is an explanation !! There are way to many questionable dealings going on here. Certain council members and no doubt other city officials kept this whole thing hush,hush. As Mike stated that the salary for this court job was without a doubt added to the budget last year without everyones knowledge,and plans for the ordinance was without a doubt created probably about the same time. How are we suppose to see this ? Especially when the job was never announced so that others could apply !! There was no public discussion,debate or anything else,it was open & closed before anyone could even realize what was happening. And how do you explain that a sitting councilman who was soon to be retiring from his position is suddenly granted a new job without explanation to anyone and possibly created just for him ??!!! Explain that conspiracy Murray,thats all we want is an explanation.
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Murray View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:06pm
Out of curiousity, if I asked you to quit your job in exchange for a 35 hr a week job for 6 weeks, would you do it? 
 
To want an explanation is fine, but to start a witch hunt is an entirely differnt matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_Presta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 12 2010 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Murray Murray wrote:

Out of curiousity, if I asked you to quit your job in exchange for a 35 hr a week job for 6 weeks, would you do it? 
Out of curiousity, exactly what job did he "quit"?
“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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