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What can we do? |
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VietVet 
MUSA Council 
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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 Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:34am |
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JMO and many will not agree, but you asked for feedback on HOW we can change the city after Pacman and others here, did a great job on identifying WHAT is wrong with our town(and schools) Here goes.....
It all starts and funnels through the City Council/ the folks in the city building and the School Board. If we don't have competent, correctly focused,problem solvers as members of these entities, we're dead in the water before we start. If we don't start identifying candidates to elect to fill the School Board/Council that are a different breed than the ones that the "club"/MMF'ers/"inner circle" people have placed into these positions the last 20 years, we are doomed to see what we have now.....ie......what we talk about daily on this site. After we have placed the appropriate people in the Council and School Board positions, we must communicate to them that the current policies governing the schools now, need to be amended to reflect a different direction in teachers methods for instruction, a new direction for the admin as to their role in the system, a re-thinking of the curriculum, a new approach when negotiating with the Teacher's Union, working with the city on reducing the negative impact the Section 8 program has on the Midd. schools, and having the super, admin, teachers and school support people to buy into the program. Likewise, after we have the correct logical-thinking, correct direction, correct prioritizing individuals setting behind the council desk on Tuesday's, we need to communicate with them that their priorities will be decent paying jobs, business retention through a total change with a friendly approach, a blitkrieg of econ. devel- not the piecemeal crap going on now, a total review of the individual budgets and funds with the money being moved back to where it was intended and strict oversight of the "General Fund" aka... the Black Hole where monies deposited get "lost" from the financial books over time, get the funds put back in the streets/infrastructure funds and start the work of fixing the streets, and basically have the new council address everything we have been talking about on this site. THEN.......THEN..... we communicate that we want the new council to start documenting the activities of the city manager from her arrival to current, Kohler's activities from his arrival to current, Landen's activities, ........doing the same for all problem children until we get enough evidence to introduce the dismissal procedures for these individuals. Concurrently, as this is happening, the new council meets to align new replacements. Now, as this scenario plays out, we have a new School Board and Council seated with the correct people in place with the correct focus and ideas needed to start the damage control and the beginning of the repair of this town. We have the correct priorities and the supporting casts set up in the city building with the correct focus/priorities that, when combined, will cooperate together to actually get something done with some teeth in it to make a difference and that the citizens will notice and approve of. Of course, this, to some, is a pipe dream as there are too many steps that are too difficult to accomplish to be successful. THAT......is the problem with all of this. All JMO of course. Adding to this is encouraged, if desired. |
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen 
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:50am |
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Vet, I'm stuck in an airport awaiting to get to DC, which doesn't lok promising, so I have some time to kill this morning. What you speak makes perfect sense, in the majoriy of cities in the nation. The problem is, this is Middletown. You are hedging your bets on city council, and what has changed. Okay, we have two new young councilmen who say they want o buck the trend, and another I'd place in the camp of M, B, A . Too early to say the two younger ones are, will become, change agents-, but that's two, out of four in the "nothing wrong with Middletown camp- Glory Days are coming") and a fence sitter that falls on either side, which is unpredictable.
Your in Nirvana, although your thought process and logic is totally within reason for 99.9% of communities. You just fail to take into consideration...your in Middletown Vet. Stop trying to apply logic, reason, and analysis, it doesn't work that way in the city. Remember, the city manager sees nothing but a bright future for the city.
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:59am |
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They key to real change is through the ballot box.
Supporting new voices that mirror adifferent approach to the issue mentioned.
We must "starve the beast(Council/Admin)" to bring them to the table for meaningful change.
This probably means voting "NO" on virtually everything until Council/Admin sees the necessity to compromise and become more open/receptive. If we have to vote down school issues also as part of the blanket "starvation", then so be it. Maybe they can add to Council's pressured stances.
Our Council/Admin in few ways serves the will of the citizens, and honestly doesn't listen to the citizens.
Our Mayor has shut the door with his infamous "We are not set up to answer ?s from the publc".
Mr.Mulligan needs to be replaced. Mr.Becker must be removed to weaken the Mulligan/Becker/Picard voting bloc. Mr.Armbruster hopefully will move towards Ms.Scott-Jones/Mr.Smith/Mr.Laubaugh new breed open thinking.
This forum is our best vehicle at this time.
Hopefully the MJ can be used in conjunction, along with community forums and Council comments/first/second readings, planning commission etc. The changed complexion on Council should lead to more diverse appointments to the important boards and commitees.
Despite Council/Admin and their minions belittling and downplaying MUSA's participants and direction, you can sense their concern about the growing faction. AND the MUSA thinking is far more in tune with the public consensus than Council/Admin's thinking. You can be sure that "they" realize that they have lost all connection with the general public.
Mr.Self has provided invaluable history and info, though only he can bring it forward to whomever can investigate properly and connect the dots. No one else has the knowledge to effectively present the situations. Name-calling and vindictive posturing only moves the process backwards.
Section 8 must be ruduced in a meaningful and orderly fashion.
Employers and jobs must be created.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 10:37am |
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Folks, please recall that I trumpeted that we needed to find four good candidates (one from each ward) convince them to run, and get them elected, beginning back in late 2008. Most of us did NOTHING!!! Look what happened.
The next council (and school board, I believe) is in November of 2011, nearly two years away. It will be for an at-large mayor (currently Mulligan's seat) and for two at-large council members (Scott-Jones and Becker's seats). As every knows (or if you don't know, I'm telling you now) at-large seats are much harder to win than ward seats, especially if incumbants choose to run for re-election.
My reason for saying all of this is twofold:
1. It may already be too late! By the time we elect 3 new council members and three new school board members (IF we can do so--and that's a big "IF") Middletown may be FUBAR already.
2. If we want to try, we need to start trying to find candidates NOW!!! We cannot act the same as last time and wait until the last minute to see if the old, infirm geezers like Mr. Barge, Mr. Nagy, or myself, run.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 10:47am |
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acclaro- The intent of my earlier post was to eliminate the biggest roadblock(IMO) that I see to change and that is.....current city council/school board and certain employees of the city including the city manager. The whole theme of my post was a complete change in personel in these three entities. If the city manager sees "nothing but a bright future for the city", then we eliminate this "denier of reality" and all those like her. Need to purge the rose-colored glasses people and replace with reality based, call it like it is people who have problem solving abilities and who can prioritize correctly. IMO, we can begin to change Middletown by eliminating the people who have brought it to it's knees. Logic, reason adn analysis can be brought back with the correct people in place. IMO, it all starts there. Change the downward direction of the city by changing the thinking of the people running the city through changing the players on the stage to reflect what this city really needs. JMO
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 11:08am |
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Vet, I am not denying your sound reasoning, it works in all cities across the country, except in Middletown. Council is comprised of 7 people who give 2-3 hrs twice a month. They know there are problems, but just like the school board, and I'm being repetitive, they aren't big thinkers and don't want to invest the time, they don't get paid alot for the work, and the complexity appears too much, or so difficult it becomes simply spinning the wheels, no traction, no teeth. Look at the goals recently, the same as Mike Presta superbly demonstrated in his summary for 3-4 years.
MMF will have teed up, replacements or the incumbants will run again. Armed with $50 Kk- $60 kk in cash, the cycle will continue. It hasn't been broken. As Mike stated, if you wait until 2011 for change, and replacement, it will be too late. The "other" side organizes too well. We are all putting too much faith in getting city council to turn the ship around, it hasn't and it won't. Their solution is taxation. There has been no significant industry moving into Middletown for years. SunCoke is 75 jobs.
Spider has absolutely the best solution to bring about change. Starve the beast, Defeat this levies, send a message. The key will be some degree of orgainzation, but as he said, maybe there truly enough people just so feed up with what has transpired, both the school levy and the tax increase will be rolled back to 1.5%. Leverage begins when there is a degree of power and respect. Until change is reflected by starving the beast, as spider states, all other efforts are putting lipstick on the pig.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 7:23pm |
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So why wait for 2 years?
If we can get the required signatures this can be changed in 4-6 months not 2 years. Lets stop sitting here and just talking about it and do something.
705.92 Procedure for removal of elective officer by recall.Any elective officer of a municipal corporation may be removed from office by the qualified voters of such municipal corporation. The procedure to effect such removal shall be: (A) A petition signed by qualified electors equal in number to at least fifteen per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election, and demanding the election of a successor to the person sought to be removed, shall be filed with the board of elections. Such petition shall contain a general statement in not more than two hundred words of the grounds upon which the removal of such person is sought. The form, sufficiency, and regularity of any such petition shall be determined as provided in the general election laws. (B) If the petition is sufficient, and if the person whose removal is sought does not resign within five days after the sufficiency of the petition has been determined, the legislative authority shall thereupon order and fix a day for holding an election to determine the question of the removal of the elective officer, and for the selection of a successor to each officer named in said petition. Such election shall be held not less than thirty nor more than forty days from the time of the finding of the sufficiency of such petition. The election authorities shall publish notice and make all arrangements for holding such election, which shall be conducted and the result thereof returned and declared in all respects as are the results of regular municipal elections. (C) The nomination of candidates to succeed each officer sought to be removed shall be made, without the intervention of a primary election, by filing with the election authorities, at least twenty days prior to such special election, a petition proposing a person for each such office, signed by electors equal in number to ten per cent of the total votes cast at the most recent regular municipal election for the head of the ticket. (D) The ballots at such recall election shall, with respect to each person whose removal is sought, submit the question: “Shall (name of person) be removed from the office of (name of office) by recall?” Immediately following each such question, there shall be printed on the ballots, the two propositions in the order set forth: “For the recall of (name of person).” “Against the recall of (name of person).” Immediately to the left of the proposition shall be placed a square in which the electors may vote for either of such propositions. Under each of such questions shall be placed the names of candidates to fill the vacancy. The name of the officer whose removal is sought shall not appear on the ballot as a candidate to succeed the officer’s self. In any such election, if a majority of the votes cast on the question of removal are affirmative, the person whose removal is sought shall be removed from office upon the announcement of the official canvass of that election, and the candidate receiving the plurality of the votes cast for candidates for that office shall be declared elected. The successor of any person so removed shall hold office during the unexpired term of the successor’s predecessor. The question of the removal of any officer shall not be submitted to the electors until such officer has served for at least one year of the term during which he is sought to be recalled. The method of removal provided in this section, is in addition to such other methods as are provided by law. If, at any such recall election, the incumbent whose removal is sought is not recalled, the incumbent shall be repaid the incumbent’s actual and legitimate expenses for such election from the treasury of the municipal corporation, but such sum shall not exceed fifty per cent of the sum that the incumbent is by law permitted to expend as a candidate at any regular municipal election. |
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randy
MUSA Official 
Joined: Jan 13 2009 Location: Middletown Status: Offline Points: 1586 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:20pm |
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Where do I sign? Lets do it ?
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Call me for a www.CameraSecurityNow.com quote 513-422-1907 x357
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 10 2010 at 9:34pm |
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As far a city council members, at this time we can only try to recall Mulligan, Becker, or Scott-Jones. They are all "at-large." We would need three candidates to replace them.
Armbruster will be elegible for recall as of 01/01/2011. IF no one else is willing, (and depending upon my health) I might be willing to run to fulfill the last three years of Armbruster's first ward term. I would rather not, but I will consider it at that time if we can find no other acceptable candidate from the first ward willing to do so.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 1:10am |
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The 15% should not be difficult, assuming even if 10,000 balllots were cast, which would be too high, that would be 1500 of course. As for the removal, it would appear the most sound basis would be the history of HUD and the lack of knowledge as to when these problems began. I assume it began on the watch of those 5 years ago, and going forward. Upon reading the administartive code, it would appear the replacement candidate would have to defeat the elected official attempted to be recalled. Only associated with name recognition, I believe that may be an unhelp battle with M and B, unless there is a strong correlation between sleeping at the wheel when the HUD situation numbers rose. Additionally, with Mr. Self's info, perhaps there is a compelling argument to be made for some HUD conflicts, lack of oversight, etc. I believe Mike Presta could defeat Mr. Armbruster, and there may be some solid candidates who would be willing to step up to the plate, maybe spiderjohn?
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Vivian Moon
MUSA Council
Joined: May 16 2008 Location: Middletown, Ohi Status: Offline Points: 4187 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 5:56am |
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I think we need to have a meeting to discuss this matter in depth.
Count me in. |
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 6:25am |
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Just need a time and place. Suggest a call to Betty McGary at the Butler County Board of Elections to verify what is needed/who can be removed at this time, in addition to what Pac posted as to removal.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 6:40am |
There are actually FOUR SEPARATE ISSUES INVOLVED:
1. Obtaining the required number of signatures for recall of each elected official (separate petition for each), and having same certified by the board of elections.
2. Obtaining of signatures for a candidate to run for each office POTENTIALLY to be vacated.
3. Get more votes cast "FOR" the recall than are cast "AGAINST" the recall.
4. Get "THE PEOPLE's" CANDIDATE elected (assuming MMF runs a contingent candidate against us--if they do not, all we need is a vote or two).
The incumbent can campaign "AGAINST" the recall, but he/she cannot run as a candidate for the office from which he/she is being recalled. If "AGAINST" the recall prevails, the incumbent retains office and the voting for the replacement is moot.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 7:25am |
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"Under each of such questions shall be placed the names of candidates to fill the vacancy. The name of the officer whose removal is sought shall not appear on the ballot as a candidate to succeed the officer’s self."
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wannaknow
MUSA Resident 
Joined: Feb 21 2009 Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 7:52am |
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I have a meeting place. This seems like a positive move, action verses words. I am amazed that they would even consider a doggie park. Is there no way to get rid of Marty?
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 9:24am |
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ARTICLE VI INITIATIVE, REFERENDUM AND RECALL
SECTION 1. INITIATIVE AND REFERENDUM. The initiative and referendum powers are reserved to the people of the City on all questions which City Council is authorized to control by legislative action. Such powers shall be exercised in the manner provided by the laws of the State of Ohio. (Amended 11-8-1949; 11-7-2000) SECTION 2. RECALL. (a) Any elective officer of the City may be removed from office by the qualified electors of the City. The procedure for such removal shall be as now provided by Section 3515-71 of the General Code of the State of Ohio (now Ohio R.C. 705.92). (b) Any person removed from office by a recall election shall not be appointed or employed by the City in any department of the City for a period of at least two (2) years from and after the date of such removal. (c) Each officer whose recall is sought by petition as herein provided shall have the right to present a statement in not more than two hundred (200) words defending his position and such statement shall be mailed by the Clerk of the Council to each registered voter of the City at least fifteen (15) days prior to such election. (Amended 11-8-1949; 11-7-2000)
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spiderjohn
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2749 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 9:44am |
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Probably shouldn't waste your time on a recall effort.
You have to have better, recognizable and accepted candidates in line to replace those recalled, and I don't see any suitable names stepping up to the plate at this time. Plus--we need SERIOUS participation from the 30yo-50yo crowd, specifically as modern-thinking replacements. This seems to be a segment sorely missing from the MUSA community.
Just hit the ballot box hard in May, by overwhelmingly rejecting everything.
The type of "clear mandate" will resonate loudly.
At this time, there is little support for anything coming from the city building, and those down there are very aware of that fact. We shall remove their continued arrogance and shameless self-promotion/preservation as forcefully as possible.
Anyone heard about progress made by Mr.Schiavone in his new position, or that the position will possibly be extended?
Their "approval rating" may well be in single digits.
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 10:27am |
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We shouldn't do anything once again back to square 1. I doubt the School Levy is going to fail. So we vote down the Library levy wow that is going to shake them up downtown. Hey Mr. Laubach do you need a recognizable name to win.....no you don't. You need to take a stance on the issues. If you want to marginalize Becker for now you take him out with a recall. If you wait 2 years and try to run against him, if he decides to run, it is much tougher.
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sportsnut
MUSA Immigrant 
Joined: May 18 2007 Status: Offline Points: 36 |
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Posted: Feb 11 2010 at 12:02pm |
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From an outsiders view that has family interests in the city - I think you focus on one council member to recall. IMO Smith/Laubach/Scott-Jones will do well for the citizens of Middletown. Find someone that is really strong in their beliefs of changing the city and focus on getting that person on council by recalling the appropriate council member. This will bring a voting block of four to council and may result in real change. Don't try and go for the homerun of eliminating all the council members you dislike - that will come in time - going for one will be a smaller, easier to accomplish task. JMO
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 5:50am |
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"What can we do?" That was the topic of this thread. We have explored the various avenues that can be taken to initiate change, and there has been some talk outside of this forum of similar things. I think that there is agreement that at least some Middletonians are ready to take action, but are there enough of us...and what course do we take??? Well, there is one course that we have not discussed, and it is a road less traveled. I, myself, have started along this road years ago (1999) but lost my way...and I consider myself a pretty good navigator. I believe--and I think that many others believe as well--that many of our elected and appointed public officials are, or have been, guilty of malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance in office. Most of these acts would require them to vacate their offices. Some could even rise to the level of felonies!!! While I believe that I can document events or actions that in and of themselves would justify ridding us of most of the “bad actors” at City Hall, the problem lies in getting someone to prosecute them. One would think that just bringing these matters to the attention of a judge, someone in the Attorney General’s office or similar government official would be enough, but it does not seem to be. It seems to be up to private citizens to file suit in civil courts to stop these civic crimes. So, I just thought that I’d throw this other option out there, and see if anyone had any thoughts. |
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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VietVet
MUSA Council
Joined: May 15 2008 Status: Offline Points: 7008 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 6:52am |
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A class action suit on behalf of the citizens of Middletown against the individuals representing the city or perhaps the city itself? How much would this cost to hire a law firm that would tackle this for us? Depending on how many people we could get to contribute to the attorney fee pot, what kind of money are we talking about for each of us to dole out? Who would research the law firm with the best record of representation of a class action suit similar to this? How would we get the word out to solicit funds for this endeavor? How much interest do you think we would have from citizens outside this domain? Why am I asking all these questions?
  I'll contribute to the pot what I can afford just to see some of these  's squirm.
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Mike_Presta
MUSA Council
Joined: Apr 20 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3483 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 8:43am |
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Vet, I am certain that it would be thousands of dollars, many thousands.
I know a couple of attorneys who might cut us a break if I did some of the legwork and research, but they don't handle these kinds of cases. There is always the option of filing a "Pro Se" action (meaning acting as one's own attorney), but the odds of prevailing are long, especially here in Butler County, which I believe is the proper venue.
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“Mulligan said he ... doesn’t believe they necessarily make the return on investment necessary to keep funding them.” …The Middletown Journal, January 30, 2012
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Pacman
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jun 02 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2612 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 8:56am |
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Guys we are talking years with a lawsuit and thousands of dollars. While the recall will take months and cost much less. 4-6 weeks to plan, 90 days to collect signatures, 2-4 weeks to verify signatures, 5 days for potential recall person to respond and 30-40 days for the election, total time 6-7 months.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 9:21am |
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Mike, I've read your posts many times associated along these lines. First, you have to bifurcate (split) the two issues: civil and criminal. I have no idea and have taken no time, to understand criminal allegations. They cannot be pursued neceassay at the same time or normally aren't, because one court can be used as a collection agency for the other. That's an argument I make regarding the city ordinance for the city tax ordinance- it is a M1 if they allege you haven't filed, even if you owe nothing, so you'll gladly pay court costs on the civil side and the civil penalty. That should be taken out of the ordinance is one which could be constitutionally challenged.
No attorney would take this pro se. A good starting point, after understanding what claims would be, would be to contact the ACLU, and inquire about pro se action. You could include many actions to entice their interest, perhaps the cameras and their constitutionality, some of the retaliation others have spoken, some of the accusations I've read about from Mr. Self.
Criminal misdoings are easy to file, they can of course be done at the Ohio AG office, which I again, state I am not knowledgeable to know what such accusations to be (if its meeting in private, etc- I know their are adminsitartive complaints that can be filed with the appropriate agency and a formal investiogation and hearing would be heard).
As for civil, perhaps the cities misuse of funds although probably legal, such as taking infrastructure funds, could support damages wich drove propery values don, as well as the error made in the over stock of accepting 80% of section 8 within the county. The allegation would be the effect upon property values. I think there would need to be 4-5 significant actions, that were either intentional, willful, or simple neglect, which occurred, and then damages calculated upon all residents. Did Middletown's actions decrease on average values of a resident by $15,000. times 10,000 homes. That gets a contingency attorney's attention. And that is the type of action that Schiavone (attorney) used in Monroe associated with Coke, and that was future damage, not past.
There would be no difficulty in finding an attorney who would take a contingency case based upon the above, IF the damages were real, calcuable, and direct or proximate to the city of Middletown's action. As I don't know enough about criminal wrongdoing, I'd recommend leaving that up to those who either know or were involved in such allegations, and that is a state matter---simply report to the proper agency or AG.
For civil, I believe actions such as using infrastructure funds to pay for the hospital land is a strong civil claim, while it may have helped payroll for the city, it did nothing for property values. Combine that with others, such as the continued misuse and lack of willingness to alter the ordinance on infrastructure funds, and another strong claim appears, associated with the reduction in property values, and a class action suit associated with residents impacted. Section 8 is obvious. At the end of the day, probably 5-7 actions could be identified, and that would support damages of $ tens of millions.
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acclaro
Prominent MUSA Citizen
Joined: Jul 01 2009 Status: Offline Points: 1878 |
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Posted: Feb 12 2010 at 9:54am |
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By the way, the most logical action to be taken (and above seems logical to me on the civil side), is the beast must be starved. Some degree of organization must be initiated, to defeat the school levey. Then the next big election to push back the 1.75% tax increase. In fact, that might be a logical petition to do now, to get enough signatures to set aside the tax imcrease, based upon what I've read is many believe the use of the money was not public safety only, but did not fill positions and was diverted elsewhere.
It starts with logical goal setting. Spider hit it right on, starve the beast, get some attention, and the city certainly is providing little services. At the same time, start listing potential damages. I have some I've strawmaned which I believe to be accurate. I'm sure others have many ideas and knowledge. What about the canal, and additional damage to those living next to it in property decline?
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